Edmund Rennolds interview 3 (2004-07-29)

              VIRGINIA COMMONWEALTH UNIVERSITY
JAMES BRANCH CABELL LIBRARY, SPECIAL COLLECTIONS 
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT: TWENTIETH CENTURY RICHMOND, VIRGINIA

NARRATOR: EDMUND ADDISON RENNOLDS, JR.	
INTERVIEWER: KATHRYN E. COLWELL
Place:	6410 Three Chopt Road			No. of tapes: 1
	Richmond, Virginia	     			No. of sides: 2
							Length of tape:   96 minutes
Date:	July 29, 2004				Interview: 3 of 4	

Counter Index	Topic of Discussion
[Cassette tape 1 of 1, Side A, Third Interview 7/29/04]
0:00:54.4	Introductions
0:00:54.4	Addison ancestors
0:03:53.3	The Reverend Walter Dulaney Addison
0:10:00.0	Addison history following move to Richmond  
0:14:25.3	Mr. Rennolds’ service to the community 
0:20:18.2	Addison business ventures
0.23:31.0	Grandmother Nellie Addison Rennolds 
0:28:43.0	Grandmother Rennolds’ community involvement: Sheltering Arms Hospital
0:32.00.0	John Patteson Branch and Mary Louise Merritt Kerr
0:41:46.1	James Read Branch 
0:44:59.9	Siblings of Grandfather John Kerr Branch
0:45:53.2	Siblings of parents: Edmund Addison and Zayde Branch Rennolds
0:47:56.0	Zayde Gould Branch’s family home in New York State
0:56:16.2	John and Beulah Branch’s villa in Italy
End of side A

[Cassette tape 1 of 1, Side B, Third Interview 7/29/04]
0:00:10.1	Mr. Rennolds’ visit to Europe at time of Lindberg’s trans-Atlantic flight
0:09:38.0	The Edmund A. Rennolds, Sr. family trip to Florence in 1929 (the “bread pouncers”)
0:15:00.7	The furnishings for the Villa Marsilio Ficino and the Branch House
0:24:26.0	Discussion of Palladian Villas
End of Side B








0:0:54.4		Introduction
	Kathryn E. Colwell:  Today is Thursday July 29th.  This is an interview with Edmund 
(“Ned”) Addison Rennolds, Jr.  He is the narrator and I will be the interviewer.  I am Kathy 
Colwell.  Also present in the room are Mr. Rennolds’ children Edmund [Rennolds, III] and Bucci 
[Rennolds Zuegner], his granddaughter Lizzie [Grosso], his niece Sarah Harrison; and his 
companion Emile Zaffa.  We’ll start now with questions that we have identified from the previous 
interviews.  Go ahead Mr. Rennolds.
00:00:54.4	Addison ancestors
	Edmund Addison Rennolds, Jr.:  The Addison family came to Maryland early in the time 
of that colony, in the late 1600s.  They came from an interesting family in England.  They were 
close relation to the author Joseph Addison and also they had a relative who was the chaplain in 
the army of the Duke of Marlborough.  They got in on some good land on the Potomac.  Their 
house was called Oxon Hill, O-x-o-n.  They—
	Edmund Addison Rennolds, III: Was that the late 1600s?
	EAR:	Yes.  They were fairly prominent in life in Maryland.  But they took the British 
side during the Revolutionary War, which was disastrous for their future.  
	KEC:	What kind of work were they doing at that time? Land owners?
	EAR:	They were running plantations.  And I believe they did some work, like most 
people, trading things in England.  After the Revolution it became very difficult to hold on to 
property because of the change in the business.  The last owner of their house was called Walter 
Dulaney, D-u-l-a-n-e-y.  He founded the St. John’s Church in Georgetown.  Among his 
parishioners were members of the—Congress.  
	KEC:	Was he a direct ancestor to you?  When you say he was the last owner of Oxon 
Hill, did he, the lineage come down to your relatives?
	EAR:	Yes, yes he did.  He was my great-great-great-grandfather. 
 0:03:53.3	The Reverend Walter Dulaney Addison
	One of the problems with his people was that they liked to duel with each other.  He was 
violently opposed to that.  So he would try to turn up and stop the duel.  One of the people who 
was dueling was John Randolph of Roanoke and another one was a nephew of Thomas Jefferson, 
who lived in the White House with his uncle.  They decided that they would have the duel on 
Sunday at eleven o’clock in the morning so that he couldn’t possibly be there.  He cancelled the 
service and was there anyway.  And he said that if they didn’t go away, they would tie them to a 
tree.
	KEC:	Did he stop the duel?
	EAR:	Yes, he stopped that duel.  
	EARIII:	This was a duel was between John Randolph and Thomas Jefferson’s 
nephew?
	EAR:	No, but they were dueling different people.  Just two people who were dueling.  
John Randolph was a violent person.  He would duel at the drop of a hat.   He [The Reverend 
Addison]—this was the very early days of the Episcopal Church—he was quite important at that 
time.  Later the family lived in Alexandria, Virginia.  My great-grandfather, who was Edmund B. 
Addison, was married in Alexandria in 1859 and moved to Richmond.  His first child, who was 
my grandmother Nellie, was born in Alexandria.
	KEC:	His wife’s name?  Edmund Addison’s wife’s name—do you recall who was 
Nellie’s mother [Emily Crockford Addison]?
	EAR:	It is on there.  (Mr. Rennolds points to a draft of the family tree)  I filled it in.
	KEC:	Ok, then I will take it off later.
	EAR:	 (Mr. Rennolds studies family tree)  I didn’t write it down here, I thought I had, 
but—
	KEC:	If you want to add it later that is fine.
	EAR:	He, of course, moved down to Richmond in 1860. [He] received a job when the 
Confederacy was started, with the government.  
	EARIII:	Can we go back to Walter Dulaney for a minute?  You say he founded 
St. John’s?
	EAR:	Yes.
	EARIII:	He built the church?
	EAR:	Well he was—yes.  There actually are two churches called St. Johns in 
Georgetown.  One of them is the one near the White House and this other one is in the middle of 
the town itself.
	EARIII:	Which was this?
	EAR:	His was the one in the town.  I think the other is in Lafayette Square.   After the 
Civil War was over, he joined partnership with a man called Allison, A-l-l-i-s-o-n.  The two of 
them formed a fertilizer company, which did very well.  He was active in church matters here in 
Richmond.  He was the Senior Warden of St. James’ Church for twenty-some years.  And he had, 
like many people in those days, had a number of children.  
	KEC:	Approximately when did he die?
	EAR:	He died in 1922.
	KEC:	In 1922—so you would have been only six.
	EAR:	What is that?
	KEC:	You would have only been six years old.
	EAR:	Yes, I really don’t have much memory of him.
0:10:00.0	Addison history following move to Richmond  
	KEC:	The Addison home here in Richmond—
	EAR:	It was originally in a—  One of their houses was on the same block as the John 
Marshall House, which has been torn down for a high school now and then that has been torn 
down for a judges’ building.  
	Sarah Townsend Harrison:	Was that 2222?  Was that the 2222 house, on 
Monument?
	EAR:	No.
	EARIII:	Was it a nice house?
	EAR:	I don’t know what it looked like.  
	EARIII:  You have no idea?
	EAR:	I think there were some nice houses on that block.  But later, when it became 
possible, they moved uptown to Second and Grace.
	KEC:	That was the pattern of the time, wasn’t it?  To build larger homes?
	EAR:	Yes, that’s right.  And I believe they boasted that there wouldn’t be anything in 
the new house that had been in the old house, which I am sure had things probably from Oxon 
Hill that disappeared.
	KEC:	You didn’t follow that pattern.
	EAR:	(Laughs) No!  But anyway—
	EARIII:	  It was conspicuous consumption.  
	STH:	Well used.  Used furniture.
	EAR:	Yes, I think they probably had a house full of repousse silver from Kirk in 
Baltimore.  
	KEC:	They were living on Grace and Second.  That was very close then to John 
Patteson’s [J. P. Branch] home.
	EAR:	Yes, he was at Foushee and Franklin.  When my grandmother Rennolds, who 
was an Addison, was born, they ended up on Franklin Street very close by, 202 East Franklin.  It 
was just a block away.  
	KEC:	Now I am confused.  Are we talking about Nellie?
	EAR:	Yes.
	KEC:	So she was born—
	EARIII:	 He had a third house?  The first house was near the Marshall house, and 
then they moved to Second and Grace, and when this daughter, your grandmother, was born he 
had a third house?
	EAR:	No, she was born in Alexandria, I think.  
	EARIII:	 You are referencing another house on Franklin?
	EAR:	That is where she lived as a married woman with her husband.
	Bucci Rennolds Zuegner:	Nellie lived.
	KEC:	Nellie lived with Robert Gordon.
	EAR:	Nellie and Robert lived there.
	EARIII:	So when you say, “ended up,” during her life she lived nearby, at 202 
Franklin.
	EAR:	Yes, that’s right, only a block away.
	KEC:	It is interesting how the family, as they come down in your family tree, knew 
each other.  I mean the families knew each other for generations.
	EAR:	Well, of course Richmond was a very different place then.  You had a certain 
place that you were supposed to live.  They would get as close to it as they could manage.  
Franklin Street was more expensive than anywhere else.  
	KEC:	Fortunately some of those buildings have been preserved and so we have a 
little—
	EAR:	Very few, very few.  The Branch house lasted quite a while.  It was torn down 
about twenty years ago for a parking lot for the—can’t think what it is—
	STH:	YMCA, wasn’t it?
0:14:25.3	Mr. Rennolds’ service to the community, including St. James’s Episcopal Church 
	EAR:	But, (long pause)   I inherited several positions that the Addisons’ had been in.  
One of them was The Home For—  What was it Sarah?  For Needy Confederate—
	STH:	Oh, The Home for Needy Confederate Ladies, the widows.  They have taken the 
word “needy” off of that.
	EAR:	Yes.
	KEC:	Yes, they have.  Originally the title was The Home—
	STH:	The Home for Needy Confederate Ladies.
	KEC:	So they did not call them widows.  They were not all widows?
	EAR:	Yes.
	STH:	There were probably some daughters thrown in there.  I don’t remember 
“widow” atop that building.
	KEC:	You were on the Board of Directors.
	EAR:	Yes, when it closed down.
	KEC:	Was that a difficult decision?
	EAR:	Well the widows were running out.  There were only four or five of them left.  
This large building, with a hospital and all kinds of facilities, was just too much.  It had some 
endowment.  They found someone to take the endowment to take care of them.
	EARIII:	Did you get to know any of the widows?
	EAR:	What?
	EARIII:  Did you get to know any of the widows?
	EAR:	No. They were older than I was.
	EARIII: You used to know a lot of people older than you.
	EAR:	(laughs) I don’t think I picked a widow out to (unintelligible).	
	KEC:	You said, “positions,” plural, that you inherited.
	EAR:	Well, there were several other things.  I was trying to remember what they were, 
like that.  I’m sorry.  I don’t—
	STH:	Hollywood [Cemetery]?  Is that too obscure?
	EAR:	No, not Hollywood.
	KEC:	I was wondering about St. James’s.  You served on the board of—on the vestry?
	EAR:	Yes, I was a vestryman at St. James’s.  So I guess that came down as an 
inheritance too.  In the old days people paid for their pews.  You’d pay for a pew and then you 
always sat in the same one.  And you were mad if there was anybody else in it.  I still am, after all 
these years. (laughter)
	KEC:	May I ask where your pew is?  I’m just curious.  
	EAR:	What?
	KEC:	Where is your pew at St. James’s?    
	EARIII:	Then you might take it.
	KEC:	I’m down at Grace and Holy Trinity [Episcopal Church].
	EAR: 	 It is on the left-hand aisle, about halfway down.  I think his was probably on a 
center aisle.  This was the same pew on the side aisle, for his daughter.
	EARIII:	 You have the same pew as he had for his daughter?
	EAR:	Well I don’t know if it is the same bench.  We put in new pews.  It probably isn’t 
the same one but—
	BRZ:	It was your grandmother’s pew.
	EAR:	What?
	BRZ:	It was your grandmother’s pew.
	EAR:	Grandmother’s pew?
	BRZ:	Your grandmother’s—
	EARIII:	 Nellie
	EAR:	Yes, this was her pew.  Yes.
	KEC:	And so your great-grandfather Addison had paid the tithe, or whatever—
	EAR:	Probably.  Yes.
	KEC:	What did you call it that they paid for the pews?
	EARIII:	Rent?
	KEC:	Rent seems like such a crass term.
	EAR:	What?
	EARIII:	 What would you call it, rent?
	EAR:	It wasn’t rent.  It was a purchase.  You owned it.
	KEC:	Oh, it was.  That’s why it was given then to your heir, very interesting.
	EAR:	I don’t know.  You might have only owned it or something for your life.  I really 
don’t know the details. 
	KEC:	It is an interesting aspect of church life in that period of time.
	EAR:	Yes.
	STH:	What were some other things that you were on?
	EARIII:	How long were you on the board for The Home for Needy Confederate 
Ladies?
	EAR:	Until it stopped, probably twenty years.
	EARIII:	Funny, I’ve never heard you say a word about that until now.
	EAR:	Nobody asked me.
	EARIII:	How do we know to ask?  I would have never thought that you would be 
on the board for the Home for Confederate Widows.
	EAR:	Actually, it is not the one that is near the museum now.   It ended up— Sarah, 
just before you cross the railroad tracks—
	STH:	Oh, that was The Episcopal Church Home for Ladies.
	EAR:	That’s it, The Episcopal Church Home for Ladies.  
	STH:	That is a whole different kettle—
	EAR:	Sorry I, I gave you the wrong name.
	KEC:	I am glad that we clarified it.  I didn’t realize that there was more than one.
	EAR:	Probably, probably several.
	KEC:	(Interviewer reaches into her bag)  I’m just trying, excuse me, just trying to turn 
my phone off.
	EAR:	It was really a very nice charity.  These people just didn’t have a cent.  And they 
were thrown out to the wolves.  It was nice to be able to go and help with the place that took care 
of—.  They only took Episcopalians though.  You must remember that.
	KEC:	That’s an interesting history of what’s been —
	EAR:	—preferably one that had been to St. James’s.  (laughter)
20:18.2		Addison business ventures
	KEC:	We have Mr. Addison in the fertilizer business.  Is that correct?
	EAR:	Yes.
	KEC:	Grandfather?  Great-grandfather Addison?
	EARIII:  Great-grandfather.
	KEC:	[Your] great-grandfather was in the fertilizer business.
	EAR:	They used to ship a lot of fertilizer to South America from Richmond.
	KEC:	Do you know very much about the fertilizer business?
	EAR:	No, but I think it was fairly prominent.
	KEC:	They must have had some way of—  I think of fertilizer back in those years as 
being pretty natural stuff, more like compost.  Like we purchase today, cow manure or chicken 
manure, to put around the boxwoods.  
	EAR:	Wish I knew more about it.  It was a chemical situation.
	STH:	It became the Virginia Carolina Chemical Company, didn’t it?
	EAR:	Yes.  A number of these smaller fertilizer companies merged together to form 
Virginia Carolina Chemical.
	STH:	Which was a big deal.  Is it still a big deal, Ned?
	EAR:	No, it isn’t.  It went broke.  It was a period when a lot of things were merging, 
the steel companies were, the drug companies were.  It was the fashion to merge things into 
bigger things.
	KEC:	I have seen photographs of the Virginia Carolina Company and it was expansive.
	STH:	Yes, it was.
	EAR:	A couple of streets were named after them off of Monument Avenue, Allison 
Street and Addison Street. (chuckles)  —just a block away from each other.
	KEC:	When you had said that the Addison home was next to the Marshall Home, I 
[mentally] went down to John Marshall’s home on Marshall Street.
	EAR:	What?
	KEC:	Marshall Street.
	EAR:	Yes?
	KEC:	The streets that are running off of Monument Avenue that were named after these 
gentlemen—
	EAR:	They bought some land up there speculatively.  That’s why those streets were 
named after them.  One of them had originally been called Strawberry Street.  They [the city] 
named it back Strawberry Street for three or four blocks. 
	(long pause)  Now there was another family that you asked me about.	
	KEC:	Um hum.   (interviewer reviews notes) One moment—
	EARIII: Do you want to bring the Addisons back up?  You’ve got us up to his 
grandmother and (unintelligible).
	EAR:	Up to where?
	EARIII:  Do you want to talk about your grandmother at all?  Just to complete the 
Addisons.
0.23:31.0	Grandmother Nellie Addison Rennolds 
	EAR:	My grandfather Rennolds died young and she [Grandmother Nellie Addison 
Rennolds] bought a house further west at 2222 Monument Avenue and gave up the one on lower 
Franklin Street. (background noise as Emile enters to tell Edmund that he has a phone call)  I was 
very fond of her.  She had a number of grandchildren and they all saw something of her.  She 
lived there the rest of her life as a widow.	
	KEC:	What was it like to visit her house?  When you say, “you were very fond of her,” 
what personality characteristics—?  
	EAR:	It was just a pleasant house to come into.  I had a bachelor uncle who lived on the 
third floor.  He had canaries.  You could hear them. (chuckles at memory) 
	EARIII:	This was where?
	EAR:	2222 Monument Avenue.
	BRZ:	What did the bachelor uncle do?
	EAR:	He worked for the State.
	EARIII:	What was his name?
	EAR:	Robert Gordon Rennolds, II.  He was a victim of the Depression, as a lot of 
people were in the thirties.  
	STH:	She has one of the handsomest monuments in Hollywood, I think.
	EAR:	Has what?
	STH:	She has one of the handsomest monuments in Hollywood [Cemetery], the 
circular or marble bench.
	EAR:	Who did?
	STH:	I think your grandmother.
	EAR:	No.
	STH:	She didn’t?
	EAR:	Didn’t.  It is not particularly handsome but I’ll show it to you.
	STH:	Okay, never mind. 
	BRZ:	(addressing Sarah) Are you thinking of Christian?
	STH:	Christian.  I’m thinking of Christian, excuse me.
	KEC:	Of the Addison relatives, one thing that we have not talked about is where your 
ancestors are buried.  I know there are a number of Branches in Hollywood—
	EAR:	So are the Addisons.  So are the Rennoldses.  
	EARIII:  I’d like to hear more about your grandmother.  Can you describe her a little bit 
more for us, as a person? 
	EAR:	She was, I guess, was pretty normal for that time.  [She] led a very normal 
person’s life, went down to Virginia Beach for a week or two, at the right time of year. (chuckles)  
She and her sister used to go to Atlantic City sometimes for a week, stay at the Marlborough-
Blenheim Hotel.  
	STH:	Was she tall, short?  What color hair?
	EAR:	What?
	STH:	Was she tall, short?
	EAR:	Marlborough-Blenheim Hotel.
	STH:	(speaking louder) Was she tall or short?
	EAR:	Yes, she was tall and thin.
	STH:	Tall and thin.  What color hair?
	EAR:	What’s that?
	STH:	What color hair?
	EAR:	White, when I saw it. (laughter)
	KEC:	Did they travel?
	STH:	It wasn’t a (unintelligible)
	EAR:	She and her sister used to go up and stay at the Waldorf in New York.  After they 
tore the Waldorf down, she never came again.
	EARIII:  Unh-uh, unh-uh.
	EAR:	They built another Waldorf, but she still liked the old one.
	BRZ:	Did you ever go up there with her?
	EAR:	No.
	EARIII:	 Was she attractive?
	EAR:	I thought so, yes.
	EARIII:  When did she die?
	EAR:	She lived fairly long.  She died about 1950, in there somewhere.
	STH:	But you really spent a lot more time with your Branch grandma?
	EAR:	Yes, because I went and stayed with them, with her.  But they only lived a couple 
of blocks from each other.
	EARIII: What would you do with her?
	EAR:	With who?
	EARIII: With your grandmother Addison Rennolds?
	EAR:	Just go and see her basically.
	EARIII: Talk about what?
	EAR:	What?
	EARIII:  What would you talk about?
	EAR:	 The relatives all came trying to find something to tell her.
	KEC:	Because she was interested?
	EAR:	Yes, and because she didn’t go out much and they just—
0:28:43.0	Grandmother Rennolds’ community involvement in the Sheltering Arms Hospital
	KEC:	When I think of your grandmother Branch, one of the things that we discussed is 
that she was active in the Women’s Suffrage Movement.  It would sound as though your two 
grandmothers had different interests.
	EAR:	Yes.
	KEC:	Their focus went in different directions.
	EAR:	This one, this Rennolds one, was one of the founders of the Sheltering Arms 
Hospital here in Richmond.
	KEC:	Important contribution.
	EAR:	I think there were twelve women that started it.
	EARIII: Does that mean she put up a chunk of money?
	EAR:	What?
	EARIII: Did she put up a chunk of money?
	EAR:	Put up what money?
	EARIII:  A chunk of money.
	EAR:	To do what?	
	EAR:	To start Sheltering Arms?
	EAR:	I don’t know.  She had a trust fund left by her father.  I don’t think she had much 
principal to spend.  She had income.
	KEC:	I have noted, when I read about women of that era, they often had a lot of 
influence in the community though as far as raising funds and getting the husbands or the brothers 
to— 
	EAR:	Yes, husbands.
	KEC:	—to help support some of the causes.	
	EARIII:  Sheltering Arms was a hospital for indigent patients?
	EAR:	I think so.
	STH:	Incurables, I think.
	EAR:	No, that was a different deal, wasn’t it?  Incurables, The Home for Incurables?
	STH:	Well that too.  I think there were a lot of incurables there.  But I do know that the 
Sheltering Arms turned into a very stylish thing of which to be a part.
	EARIII:	 Interesting that she would have done that.
	EAR:	It is stylish now.  I don’t know whether it was then.
	STH:	It was through the years.
	EAR:	Always stylish, okay. (chuckles)
	EARIII: Were you close to her?
	EAR:	Who?
	EARIII:  Your grandmother.
	EAR:	Yes.
	EARIII:	 Mrs. Rennolds?
	EAR:	Uh-huh.
	EARIII: The other grandmother was involved in women’s suffrage.  Did Grandmother 
Rennolds have any interest in that?  Do you know?
	EAR:	No.
	EARIII:  You know that she didn’t or don’t know that she did?
	EAR:	I would say not.
	EARIII:  She didn’t think that women should have the right to vote?
	EAR:	Probably never thought about it.
	BRZ:	She wasn’t active.  You don’t know what she thought.
	EARIII:  He might know.
	STH:	I think she might have made good cookies in that house and that’s why Ned liked 
going over there.
	KEC:	It sounds as though she was a nurturing grandmother.  That would be my instinct 
on that.  I think most people have often a grandmother that is kind of warm and huggable—
	EAR:	That’s right.
	KEC:	—then there’s another grandmother that tends to give us more directions.
	EAR:	That’s right.  (pause)  This was the warm one.
0:32.00.0	Grandparents John Patteson Branch and Mary Louise Merritt Kerr
	KEC:	Actually the other family that you—unless someone wants to talk a little more 
about the Addisons—the other family that we were going to fill-in is John Patteson Branch and 
his wife Mary Louise Merritt Kerr.  We’ve spoken some about Thomas Branch of course, John’s 
father, but the Kerr’s we really haven’t talked about at all.  If we could start with them, the Kerr 
ancestors.
	EAR:	John Patteson Branch was married during the Civil War, 1863.   His wife was the 
daughter of a Methodist clergyman, The Rev. John Kerr, who had come over from Ireland.  I 
don’t, unfortunately, don’t know very much about him. 
	KEC:	The Branches attended the Methodist church though, did they not?
	EAR:	Yes, they did.
	KEC:	That is logical.  The Branches were Methodist before he married Mary Louise 
Kerr.  Refresh my memory if you will.  Did John Patteson, was he the one that went to Europe 
with the pastor from Centenary Methodist?
	EAR:	In 1856 he’d done that.
	KEC:	It sounds as though he was active in the church—
	EAR:	Yes, he was.
	KEC:	—had an interest in church affairs.  Did your grandfather [John Kerr] ever talk 
about his mother, Mary Louise?	
	EAR:	She developed cancer.  They decided that the best doctors were in Europe.  They 
took her to Europe quite a bit to see the doctors.  She eventually died in Munich.  
	EARIII:	 Do you know when?
	EAR:	I think it was about 1890.  She was reasonably young.
	KEC:	Was there a Kerr tie to Europe or was that—
	EAR:	Was there what?
	KEC:	—a Kerr family tie to Europe or would have this have been possible because of 
the Branch family?
	EAR:	Yes, I don’t think they knew much about the Kerrs, who were in Ireland, of 
course.  It is Scottish name but a number of Scottish people went to Northern Ireland to live.  I 
think the English probably encouraged it.  They were not travelers you see.
	KEC:	Do you think his mother’s illness might have influenced John Kerr Branch?
	EAR:	Of course.  Some of them went to see her and went to Europe because of her.  
When she died, they found this monument in Genoa and had a copy of it made for Hollywood.  It 
is supposed to be one of the handsomest monuments in Hollywood.  
	KEC:	Can you describe it?
	EARIII:	 A woman reclined, grief stricken.
	EAR:	It is a cross and she is leaning back against it, both life-sized, holding some 
poppies in her hand.  Somebody in the newspaper said it was obvious that she was a drug addict. 
(laughter)  I wrote a letter.  I said, “You probably never saw that poem ‘In Flanders fields the 
poppies blow, Between the crosses, row on row.’” (laughter)
	KEC:	It is good to set it straight for the record.  Definitely.  Something that I will do is 
go to Hollywood and photograph the different monuments because I believe they also reflect on 
your family values and interest in art.
	EAR:	This monument is very close to Jefferson Davis, which, I guess, people probably 
wanted it to be at that time.  
	EARIII:  It is considered the nicest monument there.
	EAR:	Well, that comment that he wrote about Hollywood said so.
	EARIII:  The guidebook says that.
	EAR:	Well anyway—
	EARIII:	 We have a copy of it here, somewhere.
	EAR:	John Patteson Branch lived quite a while as a widower, at number one West 
Franklin.
	KEC:	While his wife was ill, did he travel with her to Europe?
	EAR:	Probably did.  I would assume so.
	KEC:	He was in business with his father and brother, is that correct?
	EAR:	Yes.  He had a brother that lived in Paris for a while.  
	EARIII:	 Who was the brother?
	EAR:	Blythe Branch.  There was a sister who married Arthur Glassgo, and lived in 
London.  
	KEC:	A very strong interest in Europe.  
	EAR:	You know my grandparents met in the Black Forrest, earlier of course.  
	KEC:	We talked about that briefly during the first interview.  We were speculating as to 
why your grandfather might have been in the Black Forrest that day.
	EAR:	It was just somewhere you went like—.  The Black Forrest, naturally you go 
there.  The spa was there, Baden Baden.  
	KEC:	Right.  With his mother ill that could have been (unintelligible)
	EARIII:	Isn’t that about the time she died?  His mother died?
	EAR:	No, before that.
	EARIII:  When would that be?	
	EAR:	In the 1880s.  He had taken the trip in 1856 with the Methodist clergyman, all 
around Europe.
	EARIII:	His father, John P.?
	EAR:	Oh yes, you are right, John K.’s father.
	KEC:	How was the children’s education looked after with—
	EAR:	Scattered, scattered around.  My grandfather did not go to college, but his brother 
did go to VMI.  For some reason he didn’t.
	EARIII:	  Your grandfather didn’t go to college?
	EAR:	No.
	EARIII:  Do you know why?
	EAR:	He went to Europe instead, I guess.
	EARIII:	 He kind of felt the lack, didn’t he?
	EAR:	No.  Nobody did in those days.  It was not a must.
	KEC:	Did extensive travel on the Continent equate to an education in many people’s 
minds?
	EAR:	I think so.  Yes.
	EARIII:	 Who was the brother?
	EAR:	Blythe Branch was his brother, older brother.  They were both born at the time of 
the Civil War.
	EARIII:	 This was Blythe, Jr.?  Another generation called Blythe?
	EAR:	No.
	EARIII:	 Well J. P. [Branch] had a brother named Blythe.  Didn’t J.P. have a 
brother named Blythe?
	EAR:	This is J. P. we are talking about.
	EARIII:	 I thought you were talking about John Kerr that didn’t go to college.
	EAR:	You’re right.  John Kerr didn’t have a brother.  
	EARIII:	Okay.
	EAR:	No, wait a minute, I’m mixed up.  No, John Kerr’s brother was Blythe.
	EARIII:  Didn’t John Patteson also have a brother named Blythe who was in business 
with him?
	EAR:	No.
0:41:46.1	 James Reed Branch 
	KEC:	(looking at a draft of the family tree)  His brother is James Reed Branch.  Who 
was the grandfather of James Branch Cabell.
	EAR:	Yes.
	EARIII:	 Was James, was John Patteson in business with James Reed?
	EAR:	Yes.  But not very long, because James Reed was killed after five years, when the 
bridge fell over.
	EARIII:	 Oh, that was the Branch that was killed.  He was a captain in the Civil 
War, wasn’t he?
	EAR:	Yes.
	STH: 	What bridge was that?
	EAR:	There was an island called Haxall Island and they were having a meeting there.  
You had to pay something to go.  They had enough food and stuff so he went out on the bridge 
and beckoned to some people, who hadn’t paid.  He said, “Come on over.”  They came on over 
and the bridge fell and killed him.
	STH:	In Richmond, this was?
	EAR:	Yes.  Yes.
	STH:	I’d never heard that.
	EARIII:  He was quite a compassionate person.  
	EAR:	He had quite a career in the Confederacy.  
	EARIII:	It was a great loss.
	EAR:	His widow lived for a long time, where the library is now.  James Branch Cabell 
mentions her quite a bit.  Have you ever read anything of his?
	KEC:	I have started to read Jurgen (mispronounced).  Am I saying that right?
	EAR:	Jurgen.
	KEC:	Jurgen, with all the mythological analogies.  It’s interesting.
	EAR:	Every now and again Jurgen gets translated into some other language.  A small 
fee comes in to pay for it.  
	KEC:	Do you have a favorite, a James Branch Cabell book?  One that you would 
recommend if someone wants to get a feel for it.
	EAR:	I like The Rivet in Grandfather’s Neck.  (laughs)
	KEC:	The Rivet in Grandfather’s Neck?  May I ask why?
	EAR:	Well it doesn’t have much about mythical stuff in it.  (continues laughing)
	KEC:	Dr. Edgar McDonald, his book—
	EAR:	He also wrote a genealogy, Branchiana.  But that was committed to John 
Patteson, having him do that.  He had to go over to England to do some research.  
	KEC:	He takes the Branch genealogy way back in that book.  It is a valuable book to 
have on the bookshelf.
	EARIII:	 What does way-back mean, how far?  Medieval times?  
	EAR:	What’s that?
	EARIII:	How far back does he take the genealogy?
	EAR:	Oh, I don’t know.  Fifteen something.  They were in Abington, in England.  
(pause)
0:44:59.9	Siblings of Grandfather John Kerr Branch
	EARIII:  I’m still confused as to who Blythe Branch was?
	EAR:	I already told you several times.
	EARIII:	 I know.  It is a different story each time.
	EAR:	Blythe Branch was John Patteson, no John Kerr Branch’s brother.  [His] older 
brother, son of John Patteson Branch.
	EARIII:	 Right.  How many other children were in that family besides Blythe and 
John?
	EAR:	There were Happy and Margaret.  Margaret married Glasgow.  Happy was not 
married.  
0:45:53.2	Siblings of parents Edmund Addison and Zayde Branch Rennolds
	KEC:	When you are talking about number of children and siblings, I don’t believe 
we’ve talked about the siblings of either your father, Edmund Rennolds, or of your mother, 
Zayde.
	EAR:	Mother had a—  There was a boy named John Akin, A-k-i-n, Branch.  He died 
fairly young.  He was about fifteen years old.  No children.  There was a sister called Louise 
Branch, who was an interesting person.  She was never married.  She started out as the Virginia 
Golf Champion in 1927.  She later ran a bookstore in New York and then a kennel, a dog kennel.  
	EARIII:	 She was also a filmmaker.
	EAR:	Yes.
	STH:  She was in films very early.
	EARIII:	[She] had exotic cars with the gold (unintelligible) wings, a Mercedes or 
something.
	EAR:	A beautiful woman.
	KEC:	A very colorful character.
	STH:	She trained dogs.
	EAR:	Yes, poodles.
	STH:	Award winning poodles, standard poodles.
	KEC:	So everything she did, she did well.
	SRZ:	Didn’t she write a book on dog training?
	EAR:	Yes, Training You to Train Your Dog. (laughter)
	KEC:	Okay, so we have John Akin and Louise, John Akin Branch and Louise Branch.  
Were there other siblings of Zayde?
	EAR:	No.
0:47:56.0	Zayde Gould Branch’s family home in New York State
	KEC:	The person who continued to live in the Gould family home in New York, that 
was your grandmother Beulah first and then Zayde lived there, did she not, at the time of her 
death, those last years?
	EAR:	Yes.  Well what they did was, they live there just in the summer.  The house was 
not equipped adequately for winter.  
	EARIII:	I thought the house was a farmhouse originally, in the 1700s.
	EAR:	It was.
	EARIII:	They lived there year-round then, didn’t they?
	EAR:	Not these people.
	EARIII:	 And then there was the Victorian house that burned.  Was that not 
winterized either?
	EAR:	Actually that one was winterized but my grandmother was only twelve years old 
when that burned.
	EARIII:	 About 1890, right?  When did it burn, 1850 something?
	EAR:	It burned in 1870.
	EARIII:	Until then they lived there year-round.  They lived in that Victorian 
house year-round?
	EAR:	Yes, except for the worst of the winter.  They’d go down to New York or 
Brooklyn or somewhere for a while.  It is bitter cold, you know.
	KEC:	They didn’t know about Richmond yet, at that point.
	STH:	Was that true of most people up there at Quaker Hill?  Or did they live there in 
the winter?
	EAR:	I think everybody lived there in the winter.
	EARIII:	 I never knew that.  
	EAR:	What?
	EARIII:	That they were not there for part of the winter.
	KEC:	Was the house maintained by employees during that, when they were away?
	EAR:	It was a farmer, who lived in the farmhouse that ran the farm.
	STH:	(unintelligible, speaker is too far away from the microphone)
	EAR:	I believe, probably.  He just—I don’t know what he did, poor thing, lucky to 
have anything.  He didn’t know any better.  
	KEC:	When you visited Grandmother [Beulah Gould Branch], no your mother Zayde 
Branch—
	EAR:	And grandmother both, at different times.
	KEC:	We haven’t talked too much about—  Actually let’s jump a generation back to 
Beulah again.  What was her personality like?  We spoke a little bit about—  Oh, excuse me, we 
did talk about that.  She was the women’s suffragette.
	EARIII:	 Her daughter said she had no sense of humor whatsoever.
	KEC:	How would you describe your mother?
	EARIII:	Grandmother.
	EAR:	Grandmother.  Well she had very strong opinions about things.  She had an 
interesting experience when she was young.  She had an aunt who was married to a man who had 
made some money during the Gold Rush in California and then died.  The aunt went to Europe 
practically every year and she would take her niece with her, several times.  I have got some 
interesting letters about that.
	KEC:	Your grandmother must have had a curious enough personality that an aunt 
would want to take her along on a journey at a young age.
	EAR:	Yes.  They really did interesting things.  This is before railroads were much.  
They went everywhere with horses and carriages.  They were in the Italian lakes.  It was early 
May and in order to get to France you had to go over the Alps.  They went over the Alps on May 
10th and a terrible snow storm came up from nowhere and caught them up there.  They took 
refuge in a monastery where the St. Bernard dogs were being trained.  You know to go out and 
fetch people and bring people back from the—.  It is interesting the description of the couple of 
days that they were there.
	KEC:	She described those days in a letter she wrote?
	EAR:	To her mother.  There was also—  At that time her brother was still with her; this 
was my grandmother’s brother David.  He tried to buy one of the dogs and they wouldn’t let him 
have it.
	KEC:	I am sure he thought it would be useful.
	EAR:	And then before that they were in Rome.  There were several other people with 
them.  One of them went to the Coliseum at night, which you weren’t supposed to do, and caught 
Roman fever.  They thought she was going to die.  I have several letters that my grandmother had 
written home telling about it; tried carefully to explain how she survived.  
	KEC:	When you say “Roman fever,” I am not familiar with that.
	EAR:	I don’t know what it is but people would catch it in Rome.
	STH:	(unintelligible)
	EAR:	(laughter) Anyway that was it.  Before they had gotten to Italy, they went to 
North Africa.  They were in some kind of carriage.  There were several men along.  The men had 
guns and they would shoot animals and things from the top of the carriage.  They finally spent the 
night in that part of the country that was Morocco.  Then it was governed by the French and there 
was this French army camp.  They went in and, I don’t know, spent the night there or what.  My 
grandmother played the guitar.  She played the guitar for them.  She was about twenty years old 
at the time.  You can see that her experiences were very un-Quaker like at that time.
	KEC:	And I would think unusual for a woman of her generation.
	EAR:	Yes.  When they got to Paris, after the thing, they got some clothes.  They saw 
one or two famous actresses at the theater, went to the opera, and really had a taste of foreign 
things.  And then of course she met her husband at Baden Baden.
	KEC:	Her husband John Kerr.  You’ve given us a great variety of activities or 
experiences that your grandmother had.
	EAR:	They both had them together, later.
0:56:16.2	John Kerr and Beulah Gould Branch’s villa in Italy
	KEC:	I know that during the first interview we talked a little bit about some of the 
things in this house that this couple had accumulated over in Italy. That part was not taped.  That 
was just a preliminary before [the interview began].
	EAR:	They ended up buying a villa outside of Florence in 1924.  It was in pretty poor 
shape but they repaired it extensively and put in things like bathrooms. [They] made it quite 
comfortable; changed the name of the villa.  It was called Marmagliano and they didn’t like that 
name.  
	KEC:	What would that name translate to?
	EAR:	It was just the name of the village nearby.  But they found that a famous person 
had lived in it called Marsilio Ficino, who was a part of the court of Lorenzo De Medici.  He had 
translated Plato into Italian.  That was one of the things he did.  So they changed the name of the 
villa and it became Villa Marsilio Ficino.   Instead of Marmagliano.
	STH:  	And who in the world would know that?
	EAR:	What is that?
	STH:	Who in the world, other than you, would know that information! (laughter)
	EAR:	Well it is important those things.  (laughter)  So anyway
	EARIII:  I thought the town was Fiesole.
	EAR:	It was. 
	EARIII:	But you said it was Marmagliano.
	EAR:	Fiesole was divided into a number of areas.  This one was Marmagliano, I guess.  
It was very near the quarry where the stone was quarried that most of Florence was built from.  
Rather ugly stone, gray stone, but it was close by.	
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A
BEGINNING OF TAPE 1, SIDE B
0:00:10.1	Mr. Rennolds’ visit to Europe at time of Lindberg’s trans-Atlantic flight
	EAR:	My mother and her sister Louise Branch would come over and stay.  I got in on 
that.  I was eleven years old.  We went on a ship called the Mauritania, which was the fastest one 
to cross the Atlantic (unintelligible).  It held a metal for thirty years as the fastest one.
	EARIII:	 It was the sister ship to the Lusitannia.
	KEC:	How long did the passage take?
	EAR:	It took about five days.  That was fast going.  It pulled into Le Havre, France.  
Then we went down to Paris for several days.  While we were in Paris, it was the time of 
Lindberg.  Of course, there was a great deal of excitement there.
	EARIII:  You were in Paris the day that Lindberg landed?
	STH:	I never knew that.
	EAR:	You are getting all kinds of information.
	KEC:	Were you able to attend any functions or did you see some parades?
	EAR:	No.  We, of course, didn’t know anybody very much connected to the thing.  
	EARIII:	 But you could have gone to the landing field, if you had known.
	EAR:	Not likely.
	STH:	I would have thought Louise Branch would have been interested in that.
	EARIII:  Thousands of people were at the landing field.
	EAR:	Well anyway, we didn’t.  We just knew it had happened.  Then took the train 
down to Florence from Paris.  This was in February of 1927.
	KEC:	Now you have said in the past that you were bitten by an Italian bug—
	EAR:	That’s right.
	KEC:	Do you want to elaborate on what you felt?
	EAR:	I went around Florence with my grandfather, who was going to town to visit the 
antique shops, visit around.  That is why I take an interest in Italian things.   I had some Italian 
lessons then.
	EARIII:  You told me that you had some with a priest.
	EAR:	That was a Latin lesson.
	BRZ:	Is this the trip where you guided somebody around town?  It was a married 
couple that showed up on their honeymoon at the gate of the villa.  As an eleven year old he was 
told to go lead them around Florence.  (laughter)
	KEC:	How interesting.
	EAR:	(laughing) Adeline Oxnard married a French Barron named Baron Despremenil.  
They turned up in this French car, blocked the garage so nobody could get in and out.  The Italian 
chauffer didn’t know about this French car, so they woke up the honeymoon couple and said, 
move the car or something.   They were absolutely furious with that, to be awakened so early.
	KEC:	How many languages do you speak?
	EAR:	Oh I don’t speak.  I speak a little French and very little Italian.  You know there 
was a very interesting area at the time, in Florence; a lot of people: English people, American 
people, prominent ones of various kinds.  It was very cheap to live there.  
	KEC:	Was that part of the attraction for some?
	EAR:	That had something to do with it too.  Almost anywhere in Europe was cheaper.  
But Florence was an attractive place to live.  There was a family there who ran a store in New 
York.
	STH:	Gucci?
	EAR:	No. American name.
	STH:	Abercrombie?
	EAR:	No. it was—
	EARIII:	 It wasn’t Bancroft? Wilson?
	EAR:	No.  It was—  The son became a famous violinist.  That was a sample of the kind 
of people that went over there.  They had an ample income to live well there but not in New 
York.
	EARIII:  How about Chrysler?
	EAR:	No.  I’ll tell you a little more about him later.  Then there were people like Cabot 
and Currier from Boston that had villas there.  There were just all kinds of people like that 
around.
	KEC:	It must have made for a very interesting time for everyone.
	EAR:	My aunt would play golf on the local golf course, which would use sheep on the 
fairways to cut down the grass.  I was the caddy for her quite often.
	EARIII:	  Was this in Florence or was this in Elmwood?
	EAR:	Florence.
	EARIII:	  That also was the case in Elmwood wasn’t it?  Didn’t they have sheep 
on that golf course?
	EAR:	I don’t know.  I think they had a regular lawn mower there.  But anyway—
	STH:	Did you caddy for the Queen of Romania too?
	EAR:	She hadn’t started coming there yet.  That was later.  
	KEC:	How long were you there when you were eleven years old?
	EAR:	What’s that?
	KEC:	How long—
	EAR:	Probably a couple of months, February to May, probably.  They would come up 
to Quaker Hill around the first of July.  Florence got, kind of like Richmond, got very hot in the 
summer.  
	KEC:	Your grandfather, when he would take you into town with him, was he the sort of 
person who enjoyed educating you to what you were experiencing?
	EAR:	I think so.  He did educate me.  —talked a lot about the Medici, who they were 
and what they were doing.  —had a wonderful book about them, Colonel Young’s book, full of 
inaccuracies, but anyway it was nice at that time.  It was quite an experience for somebody.  
[He’d] lead me along.
	KEC:	You returned when you were thirteen?
	EAR:	Thirteen. 
	EARIII:  Before we—  Was your mother and Aunt Louise there the whole time you were 
there, in that instance?
	EAR:	Mother was, probably not Louise.  I don’t know.
	EARIII:	 You went out with your mother some too.
	EAR:	Yes.  Her birthday was March 16th, we were at Montecatini that week.  That is a 
spa near Florence.  Everybody went into spas because they ate too much regularly.  They had to 
loose some weight.  
	KEC:	What would you do as an eleven-year old visiting a spa?
	EAR:	I don’t know.  Not much, I guess.  You had to drink this water three times.  It 
was horrible water that came out of the earth.  That was part of the deal.
	KEC:	Were you expected to?
	EAR:	Of course.  Everybody took it.
	KEC:	Maybe it has contributed to your longevity.
	EAR:	That’s right.  My grandfather would have somebody go over there—it was about 
forty minutes from Florence—and bring the water about once a week.  He wanted it fresh.
	KEC:	They were true believers.
	EAR:	You can see what an exotic way people were living can’t you.  Then I went again 
in ’29.
	EARIII:	 Back to a question about Aunt Louise.  Was Aunt Louise kind of like a 
golfing star, with a lot of people wanting to play with her, while she was over there?
	EAR:	—was like a what?
	EARIII:  A star athlete.  Were there a lot of people wanting to play with her?	
	EAR:	Probably.
	EARIII:  You don’t remember anyone she played with.
	EAR:	No.
0:09:38.0	The Edmund A. Rennolds, Sr. family trip to Florence in 1929 (the “bread 
pouncers”)
	EAR:	In ’29 our whole family went; mother, father, four children.  I was, in ’29 I was 
thirteen.  My brother John was about two—we had a nurse who went for him—and my two 
sisters, of course.  
	KEC:	Your sister’s names are Zayde and—
	EAR:	Beulah.
	KEC:	Beulah is Beulah Rennolds Burke.
	EAR:	Do you know how to spell Beulah?
	KEC:	I’ll ask you.  I won’t presume.
	EAR:	B-e-u-l-a-h.
	KEC:	Oh.  That one I would have gotten correct.
	EAR:	Biblical name from the Quakers.
	EARIII: Was this the time that you got the special silver plates for the butter?
	EAR:	Yes.
	STH:	The “bread pouncers.”
	EARIII:	“Bread pouncers.”  Tell that story.		
	EAR:	The children had a bad habit, when we were sitting around the table that had 
bread, to start eating the bread before anything else came.  My grandfather said that was a “bread 
pouncer” and if they would refrain from doing that he would give each one of them a silver plate, 
which were made in Florence.  My sister designed a coat of arms to go in the middle of the plate 
like it had been a family coat of arms.  It showed some butterballs, it showed some rolls, it 
showed a hand holding a knife at the top. (laughter)  I was the president of the “bread pouncers.”
	KEC:	Was dinner a quite formal affair when you were visiting?
	EAR:	Yes.
	EARIII:	(addressing Sarah Harrison) Have you ever seen a “bread pouncer” 
plate?
	STH:  	Yes, I have.  I was just looking for one.
	EAR:	Well, it is up in the attic.  
	BRZ:	Oh really, in the attic still?
	EAR:	You know a lot of silver was stolen in Richmond about twenty years ago.  My 
wife got rid of all of it in the attic.  It has never come back down.
	KEC:	There was a ring of thieves that were stealing it?
	EAR:	Yes.  They were melting it back down.  Silver had gone up in price a lot.  It was 
worth melting down.  
	EARIII:  The Hunt brothers—
	EAR:	They had a little furnace that came around on a truck and they would melt it right 
then and there.
	EARIII:  —because they were cornering the market.
	STH:	They were cornering the market.  The Hunt brothers did the whole thing.
	EARIII:	But they weren’t involved in the theft.	
	STH:	No, people were desperate to get—
	EAR:	And I think, weren’t the prices higher than any year?
	STH:	It was like seventy dollars a pound and it still was (unintelligible).
	KEC:	I remember people taking their silver.  I didn’t realize theft was so rampant.
	EAR:	Well anyway the “bread pouncer” plate is safely up there.  Somebody, one of my 
executors, will find it and bring it down.
	EARIII:  We can find it right now.
	BRZ:	Weren’t there a bunch of plates made?
	EAR:	Yes.  Each child got one.
	BRZ:	Didn’t Grandma used to use them as butter plates?
	EAR:	No.
	BRZ:	Weren’t there some at Elmwood?
	EAR:	There might have been one, but there wouldn’t have been more than that.
	STH:	I’ve seen one in the last five or six years, I think.  Did you put it back up there?
	EAR:	I don’t know, Sarah.  I can’t remember.  I’m sorry.
	STH:	That’s okay.
	EARIII:  We’ll figure it out.
	EAR:	The last time that I was up there was the time I went to get that shell.  It was in 
the wrong box.
	EARIII:	 So how long were you in Italy that time?
	EAR:	About the same time.
	EARIII:  So you went around with your sisters but not Uncle John.  He was too young.  
How old were the sisters?  They were pretty young.
	EAR:	Zayde is six years younger than me.
	EARIII:	She would have been seven.
	EAR:	Beulah would have been two years younger.
	EARIII: She would have been five.
	STH:	Other way around.
	EAR:	The other way around.
	EARIII:	She’s older.  She could have gone around with you but probably not 
Zayde.
	EAR:	There were some young people next door, Italians.  
	STH:	I bet your grandfather still took you around by yourself.
	EAR:	Probably.  Probably.
0:15:00.7	The furnishings for the Villa Marsilio Ficino and the Branch House
	KEC:	The items that they purchased for the villa are many of these items, is that 
correct, that are in this home now, the furnishings?
	EAR:	Not too many, I don’t think.  They sent some stuff over from time to time for the 
Branch House and Elmwood.  But Elmwood got the short part of it.  
	KEC:	Did I misunderstand?  I had the impression that many of these items are Branch 
heirlooms.  They have come down from your Branch grandparents.
	EARIII:	They came from the Branch House, mostly.
	BRZ and EARIII:  (unintelligible comments in the background)
	EAR:	Some of the things went to the villa first, but I think they were expected to go in 
the Branch House when they were bought.  Our dining room furniture was always in the Branch 
House.
	EARIII:	 A lot of the stuff in the villa was looted during World War II.  
	EAR:	Yes, it was badly damaged by looters.
	STH:	What was the story about your grandmother [Beulah Branch] and the piece of 
jewelry that had been stolen?  She called up what’s-his-name.
	EARIII: Mussolini.
	STH:	She called up Mussolini and said, “You get that jewelry back to me.”
	EARIII:  And she got it back a couple of days later.
	EAR:	Yes, my grandmother was robbed.  Just about the time that the war was about to 
start she was over there.  This was a man that had formerly been a servant.	
	BRZ:	Have you seen the movie “Tea with Mussolini?”
	KEC:	No, I haven’t.
	BRZ:	It is about some English ladies in Florence that refused to leave.
	EAR:	That’s right.
	KEC:	It could have been made about your grandmother?
	BRZ:	The ugly American is played by Cher, tooling around in a fancy car.  
	Lizzie Grosso:	Why did Mussolini take her call?
	EARIII: Because they were supporters of Mussolini.  Aunt Louise wrote a book, which is 
upstairs, which is a poem to Mussolini with pictures.
	STH:	Mussolini listened to her.
	EAR:	This was—  Let’s see, the war started when ’40?
	EARIII:  Thirty-nine.
	EAR:	Thirty-nine.  My grandmother—  Let’s go back to my grandfather, John Kerr, he 
died in 1930.  The year after our group had been there.  But she went over for the next ten years, 
anyway.  Then she, when she left—I think it was 1940—she left like in June or July and the war 
started a month or two later.  There was a long period there between 1940 and 1949,’46, six years 
when the house was looted and all that.	
	KEC:	But she did not return after that period of time?
	EAR:	No.  She was quite old by the end of it and the house had been damaged.  It was 
in need of a lot of repairs and all.  So that was that.
	KEC:	She died in 1952.  Then she was making her primary home at Elmwood.
	EAR:	Her permanent home was Richmond.
	STH:	Summer was Elmwood.
	KEC:	Okay.  We are talking about Beulah Francis Gould Branch.  This is Grandmother 
Beulah.  I had the impression that she was making Elmwood her primary home because you had 
said earlier—
	EAR:	Just for the summer as they always had; just followed the same pattern.  The villa 
was occupied by troops of various kinds, even American troops at one point.  But everybody took 
very good care of everything and stole the little things.  We later, we put in a claim and got some 
money from the Italian government, curiously enough.  That was part of the treaty at the end of 
the war.  
	KEC:	Do you have any additional thoughts on how the visits to Italy influenced your 
development?  When we talked earlier, you said that that was one of the things that you—
	EAR:	Of course there was a long delay.  War came along and so-on.  This aunt that—  
The villa was sold after the war and my aunt met the people that had bought it.  She rented it from 
them for several years.  One of those years we went over to stay with her.  
	KEC:	I would think that that would have been a meaningful trip for you, to be able to 
return to the villa.
	EAR:	It was.  We went for a month.  My wife’s sister, Lucy, and her husband, and two 
more people.  There were six of us that went over.  
	EARIII:  Lucy is Sarah’s mother.
	EAR:	We rented a Volkswagen bus, which had to come down from Germany to Milan.  
Nobody had ever seen anything like that before, stared at it and all that.  It held the six of us plus 
our luggage.  We drove around for a month, most of it in Florence, and then went down to Rome.  
It was really a wonderful trip.   That was the first time I was able to go, to get away.
	STH:	That was back in 1958?
	EAR:	Fifty-nine.  
	EARIII:  Louise died in ’59.
	EAR:	That was the year she died.  She was coming over at Christmas to be in 
Richmond and she died in a New York hotel.  We had that wonderful month as an experience 
staying in that house.  My aunt knew some people.  We went to parties.  She had parties.  It was a 
very festive occasion.  
	STH:	Some fine gentleman came and was introduced to my mother, who was holding 
her pocketbook.  He took her hand to kiss it and she dropped her pocketbook. (laughter)  
	KEC:	Was she able to retrieve it?  He wasn’t—
	STH:  	(laughter) Yes, (unintelligible)
	EAR:	We’d stopped in Milan on the way and went to the opera Puccini’s “Trittico.”  I 
think the man had gotten the tickets for us, something like that.  You know they always kiss a 
woman’s hand and she wasn’t used to that.  
	EARIII:  She thought he was a pervert?
	STH:	No, she just was from the boon-docks.
0:24:19.4	Discussion of Palladian Villas
	KEC:	You continued to visit Italy, didn’t you, during your married life?
	EAR:	Oh yes.  We went quite a bit after that.  One time we rented a villa, a small villa.
	STH:	A Palladian villa!
	EAR:	Palladio.  Let’s talk about Palladio a little bit.  He was an Italian architect in the 
late 1500s.  He wrote a four-volume book about his work.  Jefferson was very much influenced 
by him.  Jefferson had five copies of that book.  It inspired Monticello and other things that 
Jefferson designed.  They have this group of people—  There was a professor at the University of 
Virginia who owned one of the villas with his family.  
	EARIII:  They actually owned three villas.  Aren’t there three Valmarana villas?
	STH:	One is at Vicenza.
	EAR:  	I don’t think the one they still owned.
	STH:	The Villa Rotonda.
	EAR:	Yes, but they didn’t own the other (unintelligible).  But anyway, it was a family, 
a famous family in Italy.  One time, I must have been at Tiffany’s store, they were selling a 
reproduction of the villa, which is up there.  The Villa Rotonda, which had four porticos because 
it was on top of a hill.    He was part of a group that was called The Center for Palladio Studies in 
America.  I ended up as president of it.  We would have meetings.  We had several books we 
published about it, about the influence of Palladio over here.
	KEC:	Did you also organize tours?
	EAR:	Yes.  We went several times on tours, which were wonderful.  It is all around a 
town called Vicenza, which is near Venice.  Palladio also did three churches in Venice and a 
monastery.
	STH:	And a theater.
	EAR:	The theater is in Vicenza though.  Palladio was a poor boy.  In fact his name was 
della Gondola. (chuckles)  These cultivated rich people paid for him to be educated and changed 
his name to Palladio.
	EARIII:	 What does della Gondola mean?
	EAR:	Nothing.  I think they were from Venice, probably.  Maybe they had a gondola or 
drove one, or something.  He went down to study Roman architecture.  One of our trips was 
featured on going to places in Italy that Palladio had seen and then going back up to the area 
around Venice to see what he had done with what he had seen down there.  It was an extremely 
interesting trip.  
	KEC:	Have any of your children embraced the interest in Palladio that you have?
	EAR:	Probably not as much.  I don’t know.  The—
	EARIII:  David has sort of designed—
	EAR:	Curiously enough a Palladian villa is very much like this house, in style and so 
on.  
	KEC:	We talked about that briefly during the first interview.  When I returned for the 
second interview, I took some photographs that we will include in the file at the archives.
(Interviewer hands Mr. Rennolds photographs of several Palladian objects that are located in his 
home.)
	EAR:	This is the building that Palladio made his reputation on, which is in Vicenza.
	KEC:	What is the name of that building?
	EAR:	The Basilica.  I didn’t realize that you had pictures of these things.  What has 
Sarah gone to do?
	STH:	I’d gone to see the roof on your house (model of the Basilica made for Tiffany 
store window).
	EAR:	What?
	STH:	I’d gone to see the roof on your house, because my house has cigarette filters.  
That is what makes the roof.
	KEC:	Oh, you have a model also?
	STH:	Yes.
	KEC:	(laughing) —and it has filters as the roof?
(Edmund places items, pictures and books, on Palladian architecture on the sofa between Mr. 
Rennolds and the interviewer.)
rendering of a Palladian villa.)	
	EAR:	This one is like our house.
	EARIII:	This is the villa we stayed in.  
	EAR:	That’s the one that we—
	STH:	Saraceno.
	KEC:	This one is?
	STH:	That is Saraceno, I believe.  —Everybody on the front steps here. (looking at a 
photograph)    Oh, no people are on the steps.  Was it called Saraceno?
	EAR:	What?
	STH:	Wasn’t this called Saraceno?
	EAR:	Yes, Saraceno.  But the thing is I stayed in one of the original rooms.  You know 
it is hard to believe, but when those villas were built there was very little furniture that you could 
get.  
	KEC:	You mean that was suitable for the villa?
	EAR:	No.  It wasn’t made.  It didn’t exist.  Most of it, these chests, cassone, they had 
because they’d have a bed and some uncomfortable chairs around.
	KEC:	Did they build some benches into the walls then?  To create places to sit.
	EAR:	Well they—  Now what are you doing?
(Edmund enters room with large framed poster of Palladio’s work)
	EARIII:  I was going to show your poster that showed everything that Palladio did.  
Maybe you want to refer to it.  Can you see it?  He did about forty-five buildings.  That is 
everything he did, right?  These are churches in Venice.  This is a government building in 
Vicenza.  This is a famous place called Pojana, which has beautiful windows, circular windows.  
And then he did the Rotonda, which is one of the most famous buildings ever done.
	KEC:	We should probably turn this around so that Lizzie can get it on the [video] tape.  
Is it okay if I put it up here?
	EARIII:	 Sure.
	EAR:	The Tiffany thing did five of these.
	KEC:	Which one is the Basilica?  I was looking for the Basilica, which one—  There 
are several buildings that look similar.
	EARIII:  Basilica?  You mean the Rotonda?
	EAR:	No, the Basilica.  There is the Basilica.  There it is.  
	KEC:	This one?
	EAR:	No down.  It was a medieval building and they put these porches around it.  
Medieval, it was a stark kind of building.  That made his reputation.
	KEC:	It looks extremely large.
	EAR:	It is.
	EARIII:  It dominates the downtown of Vicenza.
	EAR:	It is the city hall, you might say.
	EARIII:  But the Olympic Theater is probably one of the most interesting things.
	KEC:	It appears to be quite different than the other buildings that Palladio designed.
	EAR:	He was very innovative.  Each one is different.  He didn’t really follow a pattern.
	KEC:	He did not incorporate the dome very often, only in his—
	EAR:	In the public buildings.  He wouldn’t have done it in the private buildings.   
Except for this one, the Rotonda (points to the Rotonda on the poster).  That one had a dome.  
That is the Rotonda that the professor’s family owned, Valmarana, di Valmarana.	
	KEC:	What is the membership, approximately, of the Center for Palladian Studies?
	EAR:	Probably a hundred.  It isn’t too many.
	KEC:	Scholars from across the nation or is it an international organization?
	EAR:	Mostly from around here.  It is a very small group, but it has a fancy name.
	KEC:	The professor who founded the group?
	EAR:	Mario di Valmarana.
	KEC:	That is his name?
	EAR:	Mario di, d-i, and then V-a-l-l-m-a-r-a-n-a.  The title situation in Italy is quite 
different than it is in Roma, in France.  In France it would have been d-e something.  It implies, 
like v-o-n in German that you have something worth remembering, some kind of property.  But 
that is not true in Italy.  The name just came from the valley they lived in, the valley at Marana.  
It doesn’t necessarily mean aristocracy.  
(Edmund points out photos of the Olympic Theater and other buildings from one of Mr. 
Rennolds’ books on Palladio’s architecture.)
	I was telling you that they didn’t have much in the way of furniture and there are no 
curtains of course.  They have wooden shutters that they shut.  It is really pretty bare looking; the 
way it was.  
	KEC:	(looking at interior photos)  But with so much ornamentation, it wouldn’t have—
	EAR:	Nowhere but in the hall would they have had that.  It was expensive.
	KEC:	So these are the public buildings that I am looking at, that have that level of 
ornamentation.
	EAR:	That’s right.  
END OF SIDE B
The tape ends.  The interview, which has been lengthy, approximately 2 hours, is quickly 
concluded at this point.
 

Edmund Addison Rennolds, Jr.		 

44