Selma Taylor interview (2000-05-17)

              [Total time: 1:33:44]
CARVER LIVING NEWSPAPER PROJECT: ORAL HISTORY
Interview with Selma Taylor
Interviewers : Kathy Colwell, VCU Research Associate (#1)
Barbara Abernathy, CACIL President (#2)
Date: May 17, 2000
Interviewer # 1 – questions are bolded, interviewer #2 – questions/comments are italicized (Please note tape has A LOT of background noise, may or may not impact transcription)
(#1) I'm going to put an introduction on here. This is an interview with Selma Taylor with Richmond Redevelopment and Housing Authority. By Barbara Abernathy, president of CACIL, Carver Area Civic Improvement League. We are sitting at a restaurant, and that is why we have some background noise, and we apologize for that. Today is May 17, 2000. So we'll be starting here in a minute. I think the thing that its logical to start with is for you to tell us how long you've been involved with the Carver community and a little bit about your responsibilities, and that way we can frame the other questions in that context? Well, back in 1990, I'm sure you remember this Miss Abernathy, back in 1990 the community hired a community organizer. At that time it was called a community planner for Carver. And the responsibilities of the community planner was to assist the community in areas such as self-help programs. Mailing of the meeting notices, putting together workshops and informational workshops and bringing the speakers to the workshops and the things that they needed assistance with, grant writing, we hav' a community garden where the community participated in, we have a summer youth program, so they participated in that. Also we implemented a home security program. And basically that took off because of some murdering that occurred in Carver of two of, at least one was a members of our Civic Association. And she was also the chaplain of the civic association. So the community got together and said they were concerned about the murders of these elderly and put together a home security program. So that fell under the community planner. Also, the community planner implemented all types of leadership training, conferences, workshops and we would go to the Virginia Association of Neighborhoods Conference every year. And the Governor's Conference on Housing and those sorts of things. And that's when I first started working with Mrs. Abernathy and the Carver Civic Association.
(#1) Would you tell us about some of the personalities in the neighborhood, the neighborhood leaders that you have worked with over the years. And I believe we are going to start with Mrs. Helen Smith?
Yes. Miss Smith was the President when I first started working with Carver. She's a real meek, small featured lady, but her voice carried a lot of weight. And she knew how to get things done. I wasn't there at that time, but she went to Washington DC to fight HUD, Housing and Urban Development, on a couple of issues that were current in Carver along with some of the other residents. She was just a very powerful little lady. After that, of course, I worked closely with Miss Peters. Miss Peters was the second President of the Civic Association. And Miss Peters had a little spunk with her, a little fireball. That's what I call her. She was really something else. She was the ex-school teacher, and even though my position was to assist with the mailings and the newsletter and get the flyers out to the residents all neatly typed and everything, she did everything herself. She didn't want me to do a thing for her. She was just so independent. And she had a typewriter, a manual typewriter, where she would type an agenda, and the newsletter
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on the typewriter, and a couple of times she would bring me the flyer about it, and a couple of the letters were hit hard enough that, she was an elderly lady who just didn't have much strength per se, but some of the letters weren't clearly typed. But one time I got the secretary to do it on the computer, all nice and neat, well done, 100% correct, all the letters came out nicely, and she hit the ceiling. "Don't ever touch my work." You know she just didn't want me to touch her work.
(#1) How did that kind of a personality then relate to the community? It just showed power from both of the presidents.
(#1) When you talk about a strong personality like Miss Peters, often that is a very good sign or characteristic in a leader. At the same time it might make it difficult for some neighborhood individuals to work with her. How did you see her working with the neighborhood?
We all have pros and cons to our personalities. She was very powerful, very strong, but she had that schoolteacher still in her. Everybody was her student and she treated everybody like that were a little kid in the 3rd or 4th or 6th grade or something. But she got her point across. She butts heads a couple of times with the community, many times, and the same thing with the housing authority. Of course everything had to be approved by the civic association, it wasn't any one person making the decisions. But as I said there were pros and cons on that. And one of the cons is that she took the leadership as if everyone was her student and took it upon herself to handle a lot of the issues on her own, a lot of times without going through the civic association, that's how powerful she was. Independently she would write a letter to the Senator or the delegate and the civic association knew nothing about it. But then later she would bring a copy of the letter to the civic association and share with them what she had done. So ultimately that didn't help build community activism because she was taking some of the power away from her neighbors, in effect. But she got a lot of things done, a lot of positive things done. She had time to do it, she was retired and she did it basically 24/7. And she was an editor of a national paper for her sorority that she enjoyed writing and typing and she did everything. She went to a lot of the meetings, and down to the hall, day meetings, meetings that were held during the day and put a lot of time into it.
(#1) Some of the things she mentioned when you were talking about your role I did not realize, and correct me if I'm incorrect in my understanding, that the housing authority didn't decide more. What I heard you say is that the neighborhood decided the issues and brought them forward, and your role was primarily a supportive one.
Right. Well I was hired for the community. I work for the community. And even though sometimes issues will conflict with the housing authority, my job was to support the community and work with them. And I was like in the middle. But we did what was best for the community. The community had a lot of input, and they still demand that. They demand input to run their own community regardless of where the funding source is. And the next president was Miss Abernathy, and again we have a very strong person with a lot of strength behind her voice. To me, Carver has been very fortunate because I've worked under three presidents and I have never worked under presidents that strong and powerful before. There are other organizations that are strong, but they are a very strong organization. I can truly say that. They really are. And they are well known down city hall. They call down there , they get on agendas to speak, people want to
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know why they're calling and what it is they can do to assist them. Miss Abernathy is not tall in height, but boy, I'm telling you, she stands tall. She's got stature. And her philosophy is this is OUR community. We live here and these are our projects and we need to make the decisions, not the housing authority, not the city, not HUD. We have the funding and there are guidelines on the funding. But as far as the programs and the activities and what's going where and what the neighborhood is going to be zoned in this block and that block, its up to the community. They live there. They know the community. And they make sure to let people know the housing authority isn't boss on this, the civic association is boss on this. So we've learned and we've learned the hard way, some of us have, the hard way. Because she's written letters and everything, this is our community, this is our program, this is our groundbreaking. When you talk about Carver you've got to talk about the civic association, not just the housing authority
and not just the city. We are just participants. We assist the community. I've seen a lot of growth, I've got to say. When I first got there of course they were much stronger than a lot of other civic associations, but the growth now is, they are so professional, they really are, and I admire them a lot. I think the planners here are better than some planners who went to school, but they know when to look at a house, and what should go in a block, and they know all that. I'm telling you, they're just a strong group. They have really progressed as far as the skills and it's a close knit community. I remember, see, I went to Maggie Walker. And we used to walk. We used to sell our bus tickets to buy french fries. And so if you sold your bus ticket for the day you had to walk home. We used to walk through Carver to get to my house. I lived all the way in the west end near the park. So we used to cut through Carver. And I remember that neighborhood wasn't, I wouldn't say it was a prominent neighborhood, but a lot of the houses on Clay were occupied by some of these former school teachers of black schools, and some of the black professors lived there, and some of the black medical doctors lived in the neighborhood. They had big brick pretty houses with the bay windows and we always thought they were rich when we were coming through there. And then some of the blocks were a little worse than others, like the 800 block of Catherine and the 700 block of West Leigh you know where back in that day it was said that they made brick for construction on that land there, that site there, there was a brick company that made bricks there for the Victorian style houses that are actually in Carver. We used to cut through there, and we used to think it was a prominent neighborhood because some of the houses were huge. But speaking to some of the regular blocks, some of the houses did not have electricity, and some of them were smaller, and I guess you had had indoor plumbing. No? Some of you didn't have indoor plumbing. Like I said, Jackson Ward and Carver were basically the neighborhoods where most of the teachers lived. And some of the black professors from the black universities.
(#1) Were those individuals, from your understanding, active as the redevelopmen began in the 40s? Were the black professionals from the community active?
No. Most of them had moved out. And you were left with the people who just refused to leave. They would stick it out. And I think, like I said since 1990, I know some of the battles they've fought, and are still fighting. Each battle is different. It's a different entity they have to fight, or every now and then they have to do a letter to the housing authority to get them back on track when we get off track. But they are fighters.
(#1) How does the larger community, the city of Richmond, view this approach to neighborhood revitalization and the spending of money for neighborhoods in bloom. I
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would think that some people would look at the dollar figure and they would drive through the neighborhood and they'd come to the conclusion that this isn't a wise investment of my taxpayer dollars. Do you have any of that sentiment, or has this been a community that's behind?
It's a community that's grown, and the money that's been spent there you can see it. If you look at some of the pictures and slides, we do have slides of the neighborhood in the past, you can see where the neighborhood has really turned around.
(#1) But did the broader city of Richmond understand that?
They do, they really do. What I've heard in that past is that Carver doesn't need any more money, and some other neighborhoods don't need any more money, they've been getting money for many, many years and they're fine. They think Carver is fine and nothing else needs to be done. But of course the rest of us, or the citizens that live there know differently. The goal isn't there yet. We haven't met the goal. We've met a lot of goals and objectives but we're not done yet. We still got some side streets that we need to do, there are a lot of rennovations that need to be done on Marshall Street and Hancock Street and Harrison Street, they are some side streets that were left last as far as your phasing, trying to get your main thoroughfares first, and that's what most people see as they drive through. And when they get off the interstates and so forth. No they're well respected. I'm telling you. I've worked the whole city of Richmond, and I've worked with all the civic associations, and when I mention Carver, they know that there's a powerful group. They get things done, we've got a lot of new residents in the area with the new public housing units in the area which are lease/purchase, they were the first ones in the state of Virginia, in the nation, I'm sorry, in the nation. And they were there in Carver. The townhouses on Leigh Street. For three years you rent them, and then all of those funds are used for purchasing those properties.
(#1) When you said they were the first in the nation I didn't realize that.
They were the first public housing for sale. They were in the national magazine for HUD. On the front cover. In fact, we may have a copy of that.
(#1) I would love to see that. That should be in the files. Where did that concept come from, or who originated or nurtured that dream? Now we're going to get Barbara in here.
(#2) The community. It was very important to us that even though we had consented to have public housing put in our neighborhood, and that was one of the first parts of new construction we had in years was Hartshorn Homes was the last new construction we had. And so when Duane came to us about this 9 million dollar grant to do the public housing in our neighborhood, like I said we were sued and all this kind of stuff There were sonic reservations with some of the residents, but we thought in the broader picture that it was better for us to have some decent housing no matter who it was for. Carver residents had the first preference to those houses, and then Section 8 and persons who live in public housing had second preference to those and on down the line. But we didn't just want public housing, we wanted it to be that person's own cause we are about, in our community, we are trying to reach the maximum potential as far as homeowners are concerned. And so we worked with HUD and we made sure the houses looked like the rest of the housing in Carver, and it was down to the wire, the day we did the open house on the townhouses. In fact I called in Duane, because I thought he was
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dragging his feet cause I got really upset with. So I took it upon myself and I called, I wrote a letter to Mary Wilson at HUD asking her about the home ownership of the townhouses. She turned me over to this guy named Andre Boss Majors, and he and I corresponded back and forth about this thing and he would call me and it hasn't happened yet and we still got another wrinkle or we haven't gotten a letter than we need from the housing authority or we haven't gotten that. And then when we went on stage to do the program for the townhouses he gave me a thumbs up and said we got it. So then that component of public housing was there.
(#1) One of the things that I read in the newspaper was that Carver was asking, and this was a very new request from HUD's perspective, for some management authority of those town houses. I believe it had to do with selecting the tenants that would go in. How did that end up playing out?
It went well. It went very well. What they did was the Carver citizens did have input, they reviewed all the applications and we narrowed them down to who we thought should go in there. They wanted progressive people in there. Even though they were public housing they wanted people who were progressive and they wanted ownership counseling provided for the residents so that they would know how to live in an area like Carver. I'll never forget the day that we had the lottery. We decided with a lottery. And Mrs. Abernathy was there. And Miss Peters. And a couple other leaders from Carver. And it went very well. In fact, what was outstanding was there was one lady who originally lived on Catherine Street, or was it Leigh Street.
(#2) Oh, she lived on Leigh Street. Ms. Smith.
She lived on Leigh Street. And her house was demolished. Of course she went away for a few years. And she put in for one of the townhouses and got the same address where she moved from years ago. Isn't that a wonderful story?
(#2)That was something interesting. But they did.
They had management and reviewing the applications, and just finding strong applicants for those units because they knew what they were looking for in that neighborhood.
(#1)And again I am trying to bring out — I sound as though I am trying to bring out problems — and reason I'm doing that is because this is very difficult to revitalize a neighborhood and we know it hasn't worked in so many other cities and so we're trying to figure out how did Richmond get where they were that they would approach this. Have you at the housing authority found with the authority personnel -- the staff at the housing authority — that you need to do education of newly hired employees so that they understand this concept?
Again, traditionally, our housing authorities have been a hierarchical structure that they would impose the regulations rather than being responsive to the community. So at the housing authority that concept has really changed over the years for government. At one time, government used to go into communities and start urban renewal, start tearing down and communities had no say so over anything. They didn't work with the community, they didn't work with civic associations but the new concept is, work closer with the community, and let them tell us what they need and you work with them. And I think that has strengthened the partnership between government and the communities. I'm telling you , they work on the design of the houses, they pool the designs, the floor plan the exterior, they try to keep the cost where,
you know, you don't want all low income but you want middle to upper income in the neighborhood. We negotiate on the cost, there are ways to raise it -- the cost of houses and there's a way to decrease it, you know, take some of the amenities away or add a few. And they know what kind of neighborhood they want, they don't just want one income throughout the neighborhood. So we have a lot of input. A lot of input. A lot of input. In fact, they even screen the applicants for the urban homestead houses. They look at those and send them over, say this one is a good candidate, go with this one, or call her up and even invited them to the meetings, to come to the civic association meetings to meet the civic association or come to the housing committee meetings and they've interviewed a few of them, they sit there and interview them and then invite them to – you know, once they move in – to participate in the civic association:
(#1) So you have found at the housing authority that your staff is very in much in sync with this ?
I think so. Most housing authorities don't have community development departments. That's what makes Richmond's housing authority a little unique. If found this out going to conferences throughout the country. Just a handful still have community development departments. You've got CDC's or community development corporations doing what the community development department does and in the future that may happen, I don't know, but – and then, a lot of civic associations are CDC like 501(3)c and they become incorporated and they're doing a lot of that themselves. And – but, I think because of my community development department and Wayne Finger, you'll get to interview him, once you meet him, interview him, you'll see -- he is typically a community organizer, a community lover, and he's not going to do anything, I'm telling you„ anything that he knows that's wrong or that will come back in 10 years, or 15 years and haunt him – he's not going to do that. His belief is to work with the community. He gets to know them like, like he's their mentor or something – or they're his mentor. Like I say, when you mention Ms. Abernathy's name, he goes "What? What? What?" And – yeah, he does. And I think he works well with Ms. Peters. He knows them all, he knows them all. He's just a fantastic, I'm telling you, community person, community developer. And now he's deputy director. He's moved up, I have his old position. Now he's deputy director for community development.
(#1) Good spot for him.
Good spot for him, he loves it. He does it 24-7 even when he goes home. His wife says she was so tired of him sometimes. But he loves it, he loves it. On his lunch hour – if you ever go with him to lunch, instead of going back to the office – "Let's go through Carver, let's go through Carver. Let's go through Randolph, let's go through Fulton, you know. He has to go through there and just see what's happening and he believes in keeping his eyes on it. He does, he has a lot of respect for the community and it's because of him, as far as the housing authority is concerned, I feel, that the community has viewed the housing authority the way it has. And we haven't been perfect and a lot of things have slipped up but people like Ms. Abernathy and Ms. Peters will put you in your place, and they don't mind doing that, too, because they know that's their community and they know what they want. But getting back to the public housing unit, one thing the community -- I remember them saying "attractive, affordable, well constructed quality," that was the words, they wanted. "Attractive, affordable and attractive" units there, and that's what they fought and fought. They didn't want all public housing unit down any others, but the old ones that were built back in the 40s and 30s and 50s and 60s or whenever they first came about like the Gilpin Court and Mosby Courts and Rickham Courts, they didn't want any
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courts, they didn't that in Carver. Even though they lease purchase, they could turn out to be that. They could continue to be rental properties, they could put people in that weren't screened by the community and the housing authority when the three years are up could be moving another person in for three more years and they're not doing anything, or three more years could become rental property. But they knew what they wanted. And that's what made that project as successful as it is now. Because the community, they're the eyes and ears. And not much goes through Carver and they don't know about it. They know. They know. I think sometimes at night when everybody's asleep they walk the neighborhood and find out what's going on, you know?
(#1) What is the role of private developers, then, in a community like Carver?
Well, the private developers are the ones that are actually building the new homes. That's where they come in. The civic association – you just have to remember – see, I came in with this concept, and I think Wayne is familiar with it, some other folks may not be, but – it's not the housing authority's money. It's the community's money. We're just the overseers. And we are the administrators and the fiscal agent. It's their money. We purchased the land. And it's not our land. It's the housing authority's land. The housing authority will purchase the land. If there is a building there, a deteriorated structure there, we will purchase that structure. If we cannot save it, it has to come down, be demolished, we will demolish it, and we turn the land over to a developer to build a home. And that's how that works. So, with a lot of new construction going on in Carver there's a lot of work for the developer. And right now they have a master developer that is just approved to work to build all of the houses in Carver and Newtown West.
(#1) And is that limited to certain streets? A developer just came in with a design that you worked with him to modify, I know.
We did. And he's working within the ?? and Neighborhoods in Bloom blocks that the community chose. They are focus blocks for revitalization. So there's a lot for developers to come in and they build the type of house that the community wants. That they uphold the designs ?? sometimes some will slip by and they perhaps did not have any input in the design, but they make sure that never happens again. The community agrees on the cost of the house and providing – one thing they've requested from developers, that these new homeowners will go through home ownership counseling and participate in the community civic association. In what's going around them in their community.
(#1) Now, the loans, the mortgages for the homes, come through the housing authority, don't they?
Yes they do. We have different pots of money for – well ,for new construction no. No.
(#1) They go to the bank and get 
They have their own lenders. The developer works with the Realtor and the Realtor finds a lender to qualify that particular person. But we do have our own loans and grants for existing homeowners. And for the renovated units, their own homes, the existing units and also for the urban homesteading units. Those are the older homes that we purchase and renovate --for a dollar - -and move a person in for the cost of the renovation ,for first-time homeowners.
(#1) And have the majority of those homes been on Clay Street, the ones that were renovated?
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No, they've been all over. They've been all over. And that's done very well, too. We've had over 70-some? Catherine Street? Hancock Street? Leigh Street? And on Clay.
(#2) Yeah, Leigh Street. Mr. Cherry's on Leigh Street. A.J. Scott had his on Leigh Street, 1400 block. Those in the 700 block, they were the first ones, remember?
Yes, 700 of West Catherine Street. Because lots of communities have the urban homesteading program going on.
(#1) Was there ever any talk about taking houses out just to provide more green space? I mean the way these row house are constructed is different from the way many people expect to live today that have families, because they have such small front yards and small back yards. And so was that ever discussed?
(#2) Oh, no. We don't want to tear down anything unless we really actually have to and the park that we have, the Smith PetersPark, was vacant land already, because that's where the transit company parked their vehicles when they were not in use so we didn't tear anything down to put that park there, it was going to be housing before, but – the Lilah Wallace Foundation came to our community once – came to the city – and wanted to put parks in underserved neighborhoods and so the city told them to see Carver and things didn't work out with the Lilah Wallace foundation as far as the park was concerned, but then the idea still stayed there and then when Tim [Koine] became our council person he helped to implement the plans that we put the park there on Catherine Street bwause we felt we needed some green space for the persons who were coming in. You can't just have all houses, even though Carver School was right in our back yard front yard, it still didn't belong to the citizens within the community, it belonged to Richmond Public Schools and so you didn't have access to it the way you wanted to. And the park turned out pretty good. Channel 6 gave us a tot lot for that. So – and then we – the community saw the plans – well, we planned the park. It didn't – because the administration of Richmond Recreation and Parks changed, we didn't get to do all the things we wanted to do as far as the park was concerned because we wanted to do a barn-raising – we have a little shelter there – so we wanted to do a barn-raising so that therefore if person came to help put up the shelter they wouldn't deface it.
(#1) Right—ownership.
(#2) But it didn't work out the way we wanted it to.
(#1) Good idea, though. Where – Barbara, where do you get your ideas... the inspiration to think differently?
(#2) It has to come from Him, because I don't have the knowledge for it, I really don't. I don't have the training, I don't have the training for it, so it has to come from Him. It has to come from Him.
(#1) And I think that is the reason why initially I was asking some questions about the role of the housing authority because I didn't perceive that the neighborhood would have that
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relationships between the city and the neighborhoods because the city was not listening to input. Did Mrs. Peters – uh, Mrs. Smith tell you any battle stories or just lessons?
(#2) Not really battle stories per se, but her style of doing things told us that she had been in the trenches before and these are the avenues and the ways that she got over or came out and it came out in her style of leadership that she knew it took a smile or whatever to get persons to sway her way. She knew how to do that, She knew the right words to say. She really did Because, really, Carver community had been written off as an industrial area to begin with. The city was just going to let it die. And when we rekindled the West of Belvedere and the Carver Association – and then really, I think most – a lot of our tenacity and know-how came from John Brown. He was an organizer with the task force – that's before ?? we got ?? – the task force was our fiscal agent at that time and they were the ones who gave us the technical support in the community. And so John Brown was the one who taught us about empowerment, how to go down to City Hall, and what to do, and how to lobby council and if we needed to make a spectacle of ourselves , we would do that to get our points across. Tell us about the Freedom of Information Act when they didn't want to give us papers on things that he wanted, he would go down to City Hall and get all that stuff, demand it. All we know and all we are, I think, at this point, we owe it to John Brown, we really do.
(#1) How did it come to be task force for historic preservation in the minority communities was formed? It was a non-profit, wasn't it?
(#2) Yes, it was. Preddy Ray (?) saw a need for –
(#1) Who's Preddy Ray?
(#2) Preddy Ray, he was the deputy director of task force.
(#1) Was he a local individual?
He lives in Carver.
(#2) Yes, he lives in Carver. I'm surprised Carolyn didn't get you to interview him, because he would have some insight, because he would have a lot to tell yo about preservation and gentrification and all that kind of stuff and that's what he was about , that's what his mission was.
And what it is, too, is just, with John Brown and Frank Ray (?), people like that, is the community taking our – their -- community back, the citizens taking the community back. And the government can't tell you what to do, you have rights and you have input. And I think that –maybe that's why Carver has always been a little different from some of the other communities for those two guys working there before a lot of the revitalization occurred and they had that mindset that they could do this and they could do that, and they can. They can do it. They knew their rights. They knew their rights, and they knew how much input they should have.
(#1) So really, what I hear is they taught – they helped you understand how to work through the system.
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(#2) Yes. Through it, with it, over it and under it.
(#1) And in the process, you gained the respect of the community. Of the broader community and definitely the housing authority, and then you became partners.
#2) Um-hmm. Yes.
(#2) The housing authority became our fiscal agent because there was some conflict with John Brown and – he as an excellent grant writer, too. He could write some grants for some monies and we really sorely miss him, I wish he could still be working in Carver, for Carver – and there was some dissension between he and Preddy Ray, I don't know what happened, and we went before the board, Preddy Ray's board, the task force board, to say that we demanded that John continue to work there because he was gong to fire him and they decided that the didn't want him, They didn't want John any more and so we fired him as our fiscal agent. And went to Richmond Redevelopment Housing Authority.
(#1) So this pattern of having a fiscal agent for the neighborhood in Richmond has been around for quite a period of time. At least – almost 20 years, it sounds like.
(#2) Yes.
(#1) OK.
And that's because there's a lot of money involved.
(#1) A tremendous amount.
You've got to have a lot of bookkeeping and accounting and finance, just keep up with every dollar and to spend it in the proper manner according to guidelines. That's why they do it that way. With a 501(3)c they can become their own fiscal agent in the future if that's what they wish to be.
(#2) Because we have a person like Carolyn Hawley who could do our books, you know. We have people in the community who could do that but they would have to quit their jobs to do it. And so we don't have money for the paid staff and so we have to have somebody else to do these kinds of things for us.
And Ms. Abernathy's a good programs person, so as far as how to spend the money and what to spend the money for and what money can be spent, it can only be spent for certain things. You get 108 money, which is – ones on previous CDBG grant money coming down for the City of Richmond, that money can be spent a certain way, in certain boundaries. HOME money, H-0- M-E money, can only be spent for certain things. CDBG money can only be spent for certain things, certain guidelines. And CIP money can only be spent for certain things - -a lot of pots of money. But they're so good that they can tell you how to spend the money, what it can be spent on, you know-- can it be spent on food, on clothing, any kind of recreation activities, those sorts of things. But they know, they know what pot is spending, and they keep up with it, they keep up with the guidelines.
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(#1) And that is a challenge. It is.
(#1) Because you all have full-time jobs. Um-hmm.
(#1) And so you have to live it and breathe it, it sounds like.
(#2) Um-hmm.
Um-hmm. And Ms. Abernathy – one thing I'd like to say – Ms. Abernathy has a job and Ms. Peters was retired and Ms. Smith was retired when I first met them – but I'm telling you, she works 24/7. I mean, it's Carver, Carver, Carver , Carver, Carver all the time. And she has an excellent boss. She gets off during the day, going to meetings, going to conferences and
workshops, meeting with us, and groundbreakings and open houses and dedications and she's right there, you know, because she's basic on the program, you know, and she gets off. And I'll commend Reynolds for that, letting her do that. But as I say, she's a strong person. I've seen a lot of growth in her since she's been there. A lot of challenges. She has challenges that Ms. Smith and Ms. Peters didn't have. VCU wasn't as active and motivated as they are now as far as encroaching into the Carver neighborhood so they've outgrown that area where they are across that way and at that time Ms. Smith and Ms. Peters were, that had not occurred. So Ms. Abernathy has a very large task and challenge to fight something as large – they call it a monster – as VCU. So far they're doing a good job and they have one --- (end of side A)
Begin Side B:
(#1) That's a concept that I've heard being mentioned more, jobs along the boundaries. You know, offices, and those types of things. We have to get some of those things into Carver versus VCU student housing. I mean you may have very large building, and those building can be used for more things besides student housing.
(#1) What do you see as your role as the housing authority and the fiscal agent for Carver in helping them with this battle, or to keep a relationship with VCU that honors Carver as a single family primarily residential neighborhood? What is your role in that?
(The microphone appears to have a problem during this answer, which is broken up and appears to have a section missing) That's a tough one. [section unable to transcribe]
I'm thinking of a positive response for that. I think we need to take an active role. And I think we have. We had to go down to city hall just recently on that issue. And they had to go along with it. The housing authority has been there this many years, why weren't they there that night. And my role is, personally, I'm in agreement with the community. Because a lot of federal funds, a lot of state funds, a lot of city funds, a lot of private funds, have been put into that community, and we worked there for many, many years. A lot of years. And I'm not saying student housing is bad, I'm not saying that. I think students, and I was a student for many years, moving in and out, once your four years are up you're gone. You don't have a stake into the community, you're just their for four years. Then somebody else is going to take your apartment over or whatever. IF they're talking about grad students coming in with their families to live, that's different. If they're talking about four students in one apartment, that tells me its not for grad students. And those
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facilities are not being designed for community renters that live there. Existing community renters, because they wouldn't have four bedrooms if they were. See, I came in, and I wanted, with my daughter, to live in Carver, and I couldn't afford a home right away. Those units are not for me. Not with four bedrooms, and probably the floor plan would have been useless. We would have needed four people to pay that rent. And I just feel that students are young, they like to have a good time, what they see in the future and what they expect is different than what Carver has meant to be to me. Carver is meant to be a settled neighborhood, I think, you know, because everybody there is getting to be the same age. Some of the older people have died, or passed on, and now you have another generation which all of them are just about the same age, getting close to retirement, they look at life a little different, like I said, than a lot of beer parties, and a lot of swimming and noise and music all the time and moving in and out and all this traffic, and its just so busy. There are communities that offer that. I visited one not too long ago just to look at it. When I drove in it had the pool right in the front. Golf course, swing set, playground, and I mean busy, busy, busy. People were out and I said Let's get out of here, I can't take this. It's just too much. You know they have communities like that. And then you have settled communities, I call that a settled community. Its peaceful and its quiet. I just feel that that encroachment I think is wrong to the community. You're talking about people who have been there for years and love their homes, have rolled up their sleeves and put a lot of sweat equity in revitalizing the neighborhood, took out loans to renovate their own homes. That's life. It can be money, time, meeting every month, they've been meeting every month for years free, no one's paying them. They have a lot of battles to fight, a lot of letters to write, the delegates, HUD, the housing authority, the city council, the planning commission, land use commission, its just like a job. It's a job to live in an urban community. It's a job because you've got to keep your eyes and ears open all the time.
(#1) Is this an issue that should be more high profile? I mean one of the points you make, even if people were inclined to be in favor of student housing, when you look at the investment that has been made in Carver, the public investment, it does appear as though forces are working against each other
(discontinuation of taping as people change seats)
within the goals and objectives of the community. Plus the community had a plan to put in place those approved back in 1986. They know what they want, that was never in the plan. To have all that rental. I mean what's the difference in having that and having rental property where people are just moving in and out. It's the same concept. Its becoming a little miniature VCU campus. And that's not the focus. That was never the focus. I've taken a strong issue on this, and I may lose my job, but that's me. I don't think I'll ever change. I was hired by the community. And I'm telling you a lot of times I get in hot water, but I will always, until I retire or get fired, support the community. Because my mother still lives in a community like this, my mother lives in Randolph. Its called Sydney, and its behind old Maymount School. Up in that area near Byrd Park. And its called Sydney, but they call that whole area in there Randolph. But she lives in Sydney and Sydney is separate from Randolph. So she still lives in an urban community like that and I fight her battles for her. You know, people parking in the yard because they don't have curb cuts, in Richmond you have to have a curb cut or driveway, you can't pull over an explicit sidewalk or granite curb and break it off because its your responsibility to replace it. So when I see cars like that in her yard or near her yard, I report them even though I don't work for the city and I don't even live in her neighborhood, and I'm going That shouldn't be there. And I just call it and report it. Just reported two houses, I guess one neighbor saw the other neighbor doing it so
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she did it, they were side by side a couple of blocks from her and I reported it. Put cars in the parking lot. But I will always be for the community, work closely with them and support them. I'm telling you because I know, I lived there, I was born and raised in a neighborhood like that, and as I say my mother still lives there and I know they have rights, they're paying taxes, trying to get the right type of people in the neighborhood. Carver has never turned anybody away because they're low income, but they want someone that's going to be progressive, someone that's going to work closely with the community, support the community efforts, because the civic association is the entity that meets all the progression for the neighborhood. That's what the whole purpose of it is. And you need to work with it. You're paying taxes, your on an old property, you've got to get out there, roll your sleeves up, work with them and support them. Like I said, I wasn't really hired by the community, and even though I've moved into another position, I'm still doing both positions. I'm still doing both because I just can't give it up. I'm supposed to not be doing that any more but I still do. I'm the only planner at the housing authority that's working and running going to all of these meetings at night, and there's so many meetings I don't even work in the area any more I'm still going and working with the community. But I love it, I really do.
(#1) I think when you see the kind of dedication and sacrifices that individuals such as Barbara and the others make it does not seem so much to ask of yourself.
And you know, the sad part is you know when you lose people like Mrs. Smith, I didn't work too much with Mrs. Smith ,that's why I don't have so much to say about that, I had just come on and then she was at the stage where she was deteriorating and Mrs. Peters was sitting side by side with her, pretty much running the meetings. But I worked a lot under Mrs. Peters and a lot under Mrs. Abernathy. So I can tell you a lot about those two people. But to see strong leaders and dedicated leaders and the fabric of the community to just pass on, you know, you get so emotional, you get so close to them, and I know I have. Like I said, I've worked the whole city all the neighborhoods.
(#1) And they are role models within the community, which is so valuable. Do you find the new residents are becoming involved in the community association?
(#2) No, I think that's where the flaw comes in with the housing authority. We're not a CDC, and we don't interview the persons coming in, we don't do the financials for them, and they see the housing authority as the entity that's getting them the houses, that we are far removed from it. And that's why I'm talking about putting up signs on the properties we own rather than RRHA, and if we had persons who can make decisions at the housing authority, we need to be at the table with them, when they are doing things. And when they're meeting with these people. I don't want to know their financial stuff, really I'm not interested in that. But when there are other meetings they have with those potential persons that are going to come into the community, somebody from the community needs to be there at those meetings. And so that they can get the buy-in that the community are the ones who are driving the decision, and the ones who want them there, and make a sacrifice. So they can come. We didn't go to all those meetings and sit in Moore Street Church until 12 o'clock at night and go to city council and they just turn their backs on you and we hate for persons to come in and enjoy everything we've done and not put anything back. And how do you get them to understand that story when the person talking, even now when they have problems they don't call the city, they call the housing authority. They don't call us.
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(#1) Now that's a piece that really needs to be altered.
(#2) Yeah, I've been talking about that for some time and we just haven't found away to get it fixed yet.
(#1) And then there are the other things you and I talked about the other evening is part of the problem comes down to the hours that people are available to be part of those meetings. And I guess Miss Taylor and I talked about it coming out here just now. The evening meetings, how many can people attend and how intricately can they be involved. But you know, I'm finding that same concept in other neighborhoods. Even if the housing authority doesn't build a house, that concept is still there. The new residents just won't participate. See, we get houses that CDC has done in other areas, they have built, and have renovated, and they will not participate.
(#1) Is it partly, do some of these individuals come out of a public housing setting and so they are used to looking to...
(#2) No, no, see those other neighborhoods that you are looking at, they see the CDC as the entity and not the neighborhood association.
Right, that's probably true.
(#2) I think the answer to that needs to, is that the civic association and whoever, CDC or Richmond Redevelopment Housing Authority or whoever, they need to work hand in hand, and when they talk to these people who are going to be coming to live in the neighborhood, cause sometimes the CDCs the person who is in charge don't even live there. In that community. So those persons who are being interviewed for housing and things like that, they need to see a familiar face that's going to live where they are going to be living. And that will tie them in with that civic association.
And I totally agree with Ms. Abernathy on that. I'll tell you why. I'm not going to call it an age or anything. One of the CDCs has stated in the past that he wanted to start an association with the houses that he had done, separate from the community civic association. So once that word got back, one of the residents told it, one of the new homeowners told it, boy that thing just blew up and they told him he better not do that. They even went to city hall on him. Said to start a separate civic association with one block of people would be totally inappropriate to the remainder of the neighborhood. At one time, the funding process was so cumbersome, they've got a new funding process now that these neighborhoods in the city have grown, which the process is less cumbersome but the money is more restricted. But in the past, the community had to go down to city hall four or five times in order to get the budget approved. I mean they had to speak, the first time, to the city strategy team.
(#1) Weren't you on that at one time?
Yes. Ms. Abernathy been on there quite a few times. She was on there for quite a few years. Miss Peters was on there I remembered. They act as advisers to the city managers on who should get the funding. And they were one of the community who was receiving funding. So naturally, to have one of your own on there gave you a jump start on that. But we had to speak to the city
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strategy team, the next month you had to speak to the city manager, which the city strategy team made recommendations to the city manager how to disperse the funds. Then after the city manager we had to speak to city council. So I mean you're talking about going down, and they had over a hundred and some odd agencies and people wanting the same pot of money. So I was there almost all night long.
(#1) This was after you had managed to get consensus within your neighborhood, which isn't always an easy task.
That's right. And we were down there, sometimes you'd get the agenda and you were number 52. I mean you're talking about elderly residents sitting there for hours, and you know some of the residents had diabetes, and you know, lots of little things like that that you had to take care of. We were down there sometime til 12, 1 o'clock in the morning. So, for people to have put so much into the neighborhood and new people coming in thinking this is an easy row, I mean they should have seen it years ago when they first started, they should have seen it ten years ago, five years ago, two or three years ago. And I'm coming in thinking well this is a wonderful neighborhood and its always been this way, and maybe they just think it's a piece of cake.
(#1) They probably have no conception of what its going to take to maintain.
Or what it took to get to that point. Because if it weren't for the citizens, the existing citizens, a lot of that money wouldn't have gotten approved. I mean they had to speak before city council, all those entities I just named, they had to speak before them and try to convince them and let them know how they were going to spend that money. And they'd hold you to it. Spending the money in just the way you said you were going to spend it. And for new people to come in and not support what they've gone through, I just don't see it, like I said they don't have the concept. They see what's there now, but they need to look at some slides or film or something and see what was there years ago, when you first started.
(#1) It is a difficult call, I think, how much to parade out the history of the deteriorated residents, of the deteriorated streets, when we know that the doesn't acknowledge the vibrant life that was there. At the same time you want that message out there so that people understand where you came from. Its difficult to balance, isn't it?
(#2) Yes, and that's why I'm hoping that this living newspaper and this play will help the persons in Carver who come to see it to see the struggle that we've gone through, and maybe they will appreciate all that we have done and all that we have been in order for them to be able to come to our neighborhood to live. It was not an easy task, and it still is not an easy task. And there are still so many things, and they don't come out until they're having problems. If they have a problem, then they will come out. And they'll call you. But if you ask them to come out and, even at our neighborhood cleanups, we have the same core of people that go through the alleys and pick up the trash for the persons in the community. And they'll be in there houses and leave their stuff out there, and won't even come out to help put it on the trucks. I've gone by one house and the parents were sitting in the kitchen, the kids were in the yard, and we came by with the truck, and we were putting the stuff on the trucks and we asked the kids to help us put it on. The kids were bringing out one piece of stuff at a time. And the parents were sitting there in the house looking at us. I left the trash there. I said let's move on. If they won't come out and they put it out in the alley but they won't help us put it on the truck, we're not doing it, because we're not their
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servants, we're there to help them help themselves. And i fyou're not willing to do that, then I'm not willing to help you do anything either. That may not be a good choice, but I just thought we needed to make a stand and say we aren't going to pick this up if you aren't going to come out and help us put it on this truck. Couches and washing machines.
(#1) Major. Its such a service to have somebody come even to pick that up without charging.
(#2) It costs $25 if the city came.
(#1) Yes, exactly.
(#2) So we're trying to do a service. We do a cleanup twice a year.
(#1) That's quite a benefit.
(#2) I guess they seem to think that its something we're supposed to do.
(#1) I guess people will take things for granted very quickly. That's unfortunately human nature, it seems like.
But the housing authority is at the moment upgrading their home ownership counseling program. So I'm hoping that a lot of these issues will be discussed. People need to know how to do their budgets, how to maintain their yards, and how to clean up their houses, and how to do preventive maintenance, but they also need to know some history about the neighborhood. And I think to conclude the counseling process is speak to some of the long term leaders in the neighborhood, and maybe look at a film or some slides or something how the neighborhood used to be so you can see where the neighborhood has come and people have worked so hard and spent a lot of time in it. And this way hopefully it will spark some interest in participating and keeping that momentum going and continuing with the civic association. And maybe that's one way we can get to them also. Is through the home ownership counseling program. Give them some history of the community they're moving into.
(#1) So it becomes their community. Absolutely.
(#2) And the buy in could be that they could still come out and help because there's still many, many things that need to be done.
(#1) Oh definitely, yes, yes. They can make a contribution.
(#2) Because in my correspondence I send out sometimes I say I know that ther are persons living in the community that know things that are going on in the city that we're going to be apprised of You may work.for social services and there's something you can tell us how persons in the community might need these kinds of things. Access them, come out let us know about them. Anything. Your job has some relevance to what we are doing and how we're living in our neighborhoods. And so if there are things that are happening in your job and
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things you can share with us to make us a better community, a community of knowledge, then you need to share that.
(#1) Just the fact that it hasn't worked so far doesn't mean it was a wrong concept.
(#2) Even with our mailing list, there are a lot of houses in Carver who don't get mail for us. So for the new year, New Year's Day, my nephew and I went throughout the whole entire Carver community. I did a Christmas card from the civic league. Inside the Christmas card I put a self addressed stamped postcard saying put your name and address on the opposite side, drop it in the mailbox, and you will be put on our mailing list. We put out over 400 of those. I didn't get 100 back What do you do? How do you do it? How do you get people to want to be involved and wanting to help themselves? And that's what its all for. To help ourselves.
(#1) Right. Could it be that some of these individuals have never been a part of a community, they just truly do not understand.
(#2) But some of the cards we didn't get back were people who already lived in the community, who had been living there. I said even if your name is on the list, send it to me anyway.
(#1) Do you think the new community center that will be part of the dormitory will help with the identity?
(#2) I'm hoping so, but there was a gentlemen in the community who called me, because if you're a paid member of the civic league, and my notion is if you're a paid member and you work in the community then you have access to the Seagal Center. So this gentlemen called me and said he wants a card to go to the Seagal Center. And I said well the criteria for the card is you have to be a paid member of the Carver Civic Improvement League and you have to work in the community. Well I'm not willing to do either one of those things he says to me. I said excuse me? He said do you know how long I've been living in Carver? I said no I don't. I've been living here for 7 years and nobody has come to welcome Inc. I said well we didn't know you were there. He said What is your job? I said I'm a volunteer, I don't get paid to work for Carver. He said that's beside the point, it is your job to know when a new person moves into your community. I said well if you moved in and knew we existed, why didn't you get in touch with us? Well, that's not the point, you were supposed to get in touch with me. And he said Do I get the card? I said no you do not. You have to work in Carver and you have to be a paid member. Well thank you and you have a good life. I said and I hope you have the same. So you see people just want things, like when we had town meeting and a couple guys came and asked me how can I get to go to the Seagal Center to work out? I said you have to be a member of Carver, and you have to work. They never came back to me. The same guys I see on the corners every time we have a cleanup. And they have yet to pick up a piece of trash to put on the truck. And you want to get a privilege to go to the Seagal Center? What are you doing for the community? I think you have to give something in order to get something. You just don't get a free ride nowhere.
(#1) They evidently have gotten some free rides, that's their mentality. And your instituting personal responsibility, which ...
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things you can share with us to make us a better community, a community of knowledge, then you need to share that.
(#1) Just the fact that it hasn't worked so far doesn't mean it was a wrong concept.
(#2) Even with our mailing list, there are a lot of houses in Carver who don't get mail for us. So for the new year, New Year's Day, my nephew and I went throughout the whole entire Carver community. I did a Christmas card from the civic league. Inside the Christmas card I put a self addressed stamped postcard saying put your name and address on the opposite side, drop it in the mailbox, and you will be put on our mailing list. We put out over 400 of those. I didn't get 100 back What do you do? How do you do it? How do you get people to want to be involved and wanting to help themselves? And that's what its all for. To help ourselves.
(#1) Right. Could it be that some of these individuals have never been a part of a community, they just truly do not understand.
(#2) But some of the cards we didn't get back were people who already lived in the community, who had been living there. I said even if your name is on the list, send it to me anyway.
(#1) Do you think the new community center that will be part of the dormitory will help with the identity?
(#2) I'm hoping so, but there was a gentlemen in the community who called me, because if you're a paid member of the civic league, and my notion is if you're a paid member and you work in the community then you have access to the Seagal Center. So this gentlemen called me and said he wants a card to go to the Seagal Center. And I said well the criteria for the card is you have to be a paid member of the Carver Civic Improvement League and you have to work in the community. Well I'm not willing to do either one of those things he says to me. I said excuse me? He said do you know how long I've been living in Carver? I said no I don't. I've been living here for 7 years and nobody has come to welcome Inc. I said well we didn't know you were there. He said What is your job? I said I'm a volunteer, I don't get paid to work for Carver. He said that's beside the point, it is your job to know when a new person moves into your community. I said well if you moved in and knew we existed, why didn't you get in touch with us? Well, that's not the point, you were supposed to get in touch with me. And he said Do I get the card? I said no you do not. You have to work in Carver and you have to be a paid member. Well thank you and you have a good life. I said and I hope you have the same. So you see people just want things, like when we had town meeting and a couple guys came and asked me how can I get to go to the Seagal Center to work out? I said you have to be a member of Carver, and you have to work. They never came back to me. The same guys I see on the corners every time we have a cleanup. And they have yet to pick up a piece of trash to put on the truck. And you want to get a privilege to go to the Seagal Center? What are you doing for the community? I think you have to give something in order to get something. You just don't get a free ride nowhere.
(#1) They evidently have gotten some free rides, that's their mentality. And your instituting personal responsibility, which ...
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(#1) I'm wondering if going after the same pot of money makes it difficult to work together.
(#2) That's always going to be there. So it doesn't hurt you to work together even if you are after the same pot of money. Because we do other things together besides go down to beg for money at city hall. So we could be more proactive as communities together to get more things done. Neighborhoods are all over the city.
(#1) And that has not been a focus of the neighborhood in bloom program necessarily. To connect you with each other at all.
(#2) No, no.
In the past, they saw each other, and whoever was down city hall, if they knew they had to come back the next council meeting, they'd let each other know we need your support and they were there. I'm telling you, they were there. The speaker would say I'd like all of my supporters from the Carver community to stand, they would all stand. And they used to go down for other communities. They'd go down for Church Hill. Go down for Newtown South. Newtown West. That's our sister neighborhood. They always supported each other. But now, they don't have to go down there anymore. The funds are just automatically given, certain amounts are divided amongst these six neighborhoods, so they don't have to do any lobbying anymore per se.
(#1) For the two years. And it should free up individuals to do other activities that need to be done. But at the same time what you're saying is there's not that focus that makes people get out and work for something. Do you have a closing comment? We should probably end this. Or we can talk on, its up to you.
Well Barbara probably has to go back to work. But I can see a lot of progress in the neighborhood. There are always going to be key leaders. Sometimes small groups can get a lot done.
(#2) I'll take that with me.
Thank you. Small groups can get a lot done. Its not the same neighborhood I started in 1990. And that wasn't too long ago. Some I'm sure it isn't the same neighborhood Duane Finger started in. And like I said, you already interviewed him, but I'm telling you, I can see a big, big difference in the neighborhood, they monitor the quality of the work, if something is not pretty much to their satisfaction, they're going to let you know. Not to do that again. At least not in Carver. But I can see a lot of progression in the block to block, the housing, in the houses that have been demolished, in the houses that have been built, the houses that are renovated, the new homeowners that got there, they've got a lot of new people there, they've got a variety of incomes there, they've got people with children, people without children, got old, got young people, I can see a progression in the civic association. To me they're functioning at a more professional level. Its almost like they have degrees and stuff. Knowledge and experience speaks. It really does. And they really respect it down at city hall. I'm telling you. They know them. The council people know them. Even if the new people come on, they've heard the name Barbara Abernathy or they've heard Madeline Peters, they've heard the names, they know Carver.
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Because they speak loud. And one thing I can say, when they go down there, you're not going to see them unless they have a real issue. When they go, they've go their ducks in a row. They know what they're going to speak on, and they're going to stand at that mike with confidence. I'm telling you, they answer questions like a pro. I just can't stress that as much as I want to, but I'm telling you I could. I see a lot. When I ride through there, a lot of times I cut through there just to ride to the bank or for lunch or whatever, I see a lot. I see beautiful trees, and flowers. You know, it's a pretty neighborhood, its centrally located. You can get anywhere in Richmond that you want from Carver, they're right there. Right smack in the middle of everything. A lot of the blocks are historic. Jackson Ward is a historic area, and I think the blocks continue maybe two or three blocks into Carver. But to me history goes a little further than just saying you're historic. That's a historic community. It's a close knit community. They stick together. They have a variety of incomes there now and its just amazing. All different levels of professions. Architects.
(#1) One of the things that has impressed me is how inclusive the neighborhood is. They definitely see that as a healthy neighborhood. And it is a healthy neighborhood. We need more communities like that.
Beautiful homes, if you look around you see some of the Victorian style houses, you see some with bricks, some without bricks, you see your bay windows, the old brick steps. Its nice, it's a nice neighborhood. It really is. I'm telling you, when you hit Mumford coming from Belvidere over to Bowe, and from Marshall over to Leigh, you better know what you're doing when you're going through that neighborhood. They've got eyes on you, and they will watch you. And fortunately, I can truly say this since I've been working there they've had some excellent council leadership. They've had leadership that really support their efforts and work closely with the community and attend the civic association meetings, hear what the issues are. Even when they don't even have issues, they're sitting right there to hear everything, all the good stuff, and when we have bad stuff they hear that. They're very supportive. We have that relationship where you can just pick up the phone and call anytime. And just discuss the issue. Its wonderful. I'm telling you, I really enjoy this job. And like I said, that was one of my first communities, and I will always have a place in my heart for them as well as newtown west and newtown south. Those are my three pets right now. Don't put that in the paper. But those are the three with strong leadership. Some of the others are getting it together, but when I came, they were strong, those three coming in, and Church Hill, they were already strong. They already fought some battles, they knew the ropes, and they're still learning some new issues with the university issues. There are a lot of urban universities moving into neighborhoods, a lot of cities are facing these issues now.
(#1) This is being played out in a lot of other cities also. Other cities.
(#2) The funny thing is when we went to, when was our last conference? Last year, Madison Wisconsin
(#2) There was a tour going on and we go tour different neighborhoods. And so there was this one very affluent neighborhood, because they paid like hundreds of thousands of dollars in personal property taxes for their homes. And they, the University of Wisconsin was bordering
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this neighborhood And so I went there to see how they were trying to keep the university from encroaching on them. They were doing no better than we were. I was truly amazed that these affluent professional people, all of them were professional, they had beautiful homes, hundreds of thousands of dollars these houses cost, and the university had built this stadium in the middle of their neighborhood, and then they increased the amount of seats, and they could not stop it. So I didn't feel quite as bad when I came back knowing little Carver has not been able to stave off VCU. These people who have much more power, and much more clout than we do, could not do it. So it gave me a little more smoke to fight on a little bit harder because all you can do is the best you can.
And a lot of that is going on. In fact this year we're going to Phoeniz Arizona, we're leaving Tuesday for a whole week, well almost a whole week, five days, and I looked through the book for the workshops and that's one of the workshops this year, too. University and Community Partnerships, or something like that. I can't remember exactly the title. But its becoming something that's really happening and they're trying to educate the communities on working with universities.
(#1) I think one of the things that make it awkward is that our universities are exempt from many of the zoning and the city can declare eminent domain, so it makes it harder for the community to have tools to fight back with.
One other battle I'd like to mention, and it's a good battle, of course there are always pros and cons, its historic review. Historic review is every house that you use federal funds for to rehab or demolish or even purchase has to go through historic review. And it's a state level, well it's the city too, the city has their own committee, and they come out and look at the property first and they make recommendations to the state.
(#1) Okay, so what you're saying is you first go past the commission of architectural review at the city level?
Well, before that, the have the abandoned house committee men. And they are historians and preservationists. And their purpose is to save every structure that they possibly can save. And that's good. But then that's bad too on the other hand. But then if you save the house, they want you to restore it the way it used to be years ago, to use some of the same types of materials, the ceilings have to be a certain height, you know, to bring it back because they were just absolutely beautiful houses. In a lot of instances, the units and the structures should be demolished. If its unsafe they'll agree to it. But even in some cases if its unsafe they'll still say not to tear it down. We had one unit at the corner of Clay and Munford. We took everything off of that house except the front of that house, the façade, and they had a stick pulling it up as the men were taking down the rest of it because they had cornices across the top and huge columns and that had a historic significance. So both sides and the back, everything was brand new except the front of the house. So we had to save the front of the house.
(#1) They weren't even gring by federal guidelines for preservation with that kind of facade.
That's true. I think the pro in this is that it assists the homeowner, the homebuyer, in receiving the house that they want or should receive you know that was originally there and help maintain the character of the neighborhood. But a lot of times its such a slow process. Its so slow that people who live across the street in the new houses or the newly renovated houses get so tired of
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looking at deterioration. They promised me when I bought this house that they were going to do the house across the street this year, and here its five years later and they haven't done it yet. I'm ready to get out of here. So its just a slow process.
(#2) That's why the buy in needs to be front the community because we've looked at this for years, and then they want instant gratification when they move into our community. And the things that we've been looking we can't get them done because we have to please and appease these new people who come in. And that's kind of unfair.
(#1) Who appoints the members that sit on this review commission?
The city does. They have a department down there specifically for that. They try to pull people from different entities. They have a CDC person, a housing authority person on there...
(#1) So they're city staff people?
Not all of them. Some of them are just volunteers. They are all volunteers. They've got a housing authority person, a CDC person (community development corporation), and just folks from different parts of the city who are interested in neighborhoods. They have a lot of good suggestions and all, but a lot of times its just so slow. It takes about 3 to 6 months to submit a 106 review just to get it back to say you can go on an renovate it. And when it comes back, then you can send it out for bid. It can't go out for bid until you get that back. But that's a good point that Ms. Abernathy made, that if you are concerned about the neighborhood, you should be willing to fight it out and wait. I think they think its never going to happen, but they know differently. They've phased different blocks and they know this is the first phase, this is the second phase, and we're going to get to you, but it might not be until three years from now because we've got to do this first. They know that because they're the hands on people. And other people are looking for just quick right away gratification like she said. So they have to look at it until it can get done. But a lot, even new construction, if you purchase the land, with federal funds, it has to be approved for new construction. Even though you're not using any federal funds to build that house, if you purchase it with CDBD(?) money it has to go through historic review. A lot of times they just stop the renovations because the ceilings aren't high enough, whatever they approve on the work write up, that's what they should be getting. But you know I can see a plus and I can see some negatives there, but they're just so slow. Because they hold it a month or two and then it goes to the state, and then the state has stacks of them throughout the whole city, and they have to review it, send it back to the city and the city sends it to us.
(#1) And from what I understand you don't start working on a house until its identified the buyer. And so you do have this buyer/potential homeowner that six months later, you might have lost.
A lot of times the monthly payments have started and the persons not even in the house.
(#1) Oh my goodness.
I had a lady call yesterday. She's lost her interest rate. The interest rates gone up to something like 9. She's lost her interest rate because the contractor has not completed her house. She has a new house. But its not all historic review, its moving a little slow with some other things, but there are a lot of little hurdle. The contractors have to go through a title search on the property before they can start construction. They have to find any liens on it or anything. They have to go
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back to 1945. Or 1942. Or something like that. To see if there are any liens on it. Because you can build on that property and Ms. Abernathy can come later on and she has a lien, and take it. So they have to do it, that takes like an extra two weeks. Cause its something new the city has started. And an extra cost. So, you know, we meet monthly with the civic association to explain why the units are going so slow, or we've put in for this so many months ago, nothing's being built...
[End of tape]
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